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2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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sjb0151
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Jun 2, 2013, 9:43 AM
Post #1 of 19
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2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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Hi I could use some help
I have a 2004 Sienna and had the condenser replaced after the supply line snapped off of the condenser while the garage was trying to re-charge the AC. The system was under pressure at the time and oil sprayed everywhere.
As mentioned the condenser was replaced the AC was re-charged. I was told there was 2 to 3 Oz of tag oil added at the time.
Now when sitting in traffic for extended period of time > 30 min the AC goes from blowing ~ 40 degrees to > 60 degrees. I believe the compressor is shutting off. As soon as I start to move the AC cools right down.
I checked the cooling fans are turning all the time.
One more note when I first got the car back the AC would shut off when moving after the garage evacuated, re-charged and added 2 oz of tag oil ( total of 2 to 3 Oz) the AC only get warm at in traffic. Any suggestions since the garage is not being helpful any longer.
I was thinking there may not be sufficient tag oil since when the bolt broke a lot oil sprayed out. Should I add more oil?
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Jun 2, 2013, 9:54 AM
Post #2 of 19
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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When a vehicle is at a stop and idling the a/c won't blow as cold as when traveling at higher rpm's. Another thing that will effect how cold it gets is the outside temperature.
It wasn't just oil that blew out but also refrigerant. 3 oz of pag oil was probably enough. The pag oil doesn't effect how cold the air gets. All the oil does is lubricate the compressor.
Did they replace the receiver/drier when they replaced the condenser?
It may be that they didn't properly charge the system.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 2, 2013, 10:37 AM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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You really aren't that far off from normal. All AC will rise in temp as MG pointed out. Since you say this started out when they were recharging the system, that tells me you have a leak and have been recharging it instead of repairing the leak. The lubrication is carried with the refrigerant so when a system is run low on refrigerant, it starves the compressor of lubrication and it is only a matter of time before the compressor is junk. It appears that yours it on the way and not capable of pumping sufficiently at lower RPM.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Jun 2, 2013, 11:58 AM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to connect a set of AC gauges to it and see what is going on with the pressures when the problem is showing up.
It could be a compressor inefficiency problem, but normally that won't kick the compressor off.
A compressor efficiency problem goes away if you spin the compressor faster even when you are sitting still. You'll be able to tell using a gauge set.
It could be the condenser isn't efficient enough for get rid of the heat in the system for some reason causing excessive high side pressure.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 2, 2013, 12:04 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Jun 2, 2013, 12:02 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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The compressor isn't kicking off. He's getting 60 deg air and the condenser is brand new with working electric fans so the suction pressure has to be rising at idle.
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Hammer Time
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Jun 2, 2013, 12:15 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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How many AC systems have you seen that will blow 60 degrees for 30 minutes with the compressor off?
This compressor is not shutting off.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Jun 2, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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Depends if the compressor is being cycled off and on by the pressure transducer sensing high pressure.
He really needs to stick a set of gauges on it and see what the pressures are doing.
Without some pressure readings when can sit here and theorize what is going on all day long.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 2, 2013, 12:23 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 2, 2013, 12:23 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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All good suggestions. So garage blew this off on you now
It would be rare but I'll just add to check that fans are blowing towards the engine not backwards. Shrouds in place too.
Can you duplicate this in a driveway or where you park it and watch what's going on as you said you thought compressor was shutting off. Be some use to know if it really does,
T
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Discretesignals
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Jun 2, 2013, 12:32 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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Just to add. Too little oil shouldn't cause those kind of symptoms. Too little oil will cause the compressor itself to overheat and lock up from lack of lubrication.
Too much oil can cause performance problems though.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
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Jun 2, 2013, 2:01 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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Too little oil will definitely deteriorate the compressor performance over time which will show up first with reduced suction at idle.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 2, 2013, 2:01 PM)
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sjb0151
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Jun 2, 2013, 3:09 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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Thank you all for the replies.
I did try and duplicate the problem in the drive way but had no luck. The reason I said I think the compressor was shutting off was because the temp went goes up at the vent from 40 to ~ 60 and it gets very humid in the car.
I was thinking that the compressor was over heating and shutting down. ( assuming there is a thermal shutdown) My assumption was not sufficient lubricate so the compressor over heated.
The last time I was at the garage the problem could not be reproduced. I just do not want to damage the compressor.
I should comment I am the orgianl owner of the car and never had any AC issues until this year.
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Discretesignals
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Jun 2, 2013, 3:28 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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There is no dipstick on the compressor, so you don't know how much oil is in it. The total system is designed to hold a specific amount of oil. The only way to know if the system has the correct amount is by draining the compressor, flushing the entire system, and then oil balancing and recharging the system. Most people aren't going to go through all that, so it isn't unusual to find systems with too much or too little oil.
An AC instructor once told us that if you take a line off and oil drips out there is too much oil in the system. He stated there should be a light coat of oil in the line. It isn't extremely critical to have the exact amount, but it should be in the ball park.
During recovery some of the oil is lost with the refrigerant, that is why most recovery machines have an oil recovery bottle, so you can put back in what you take out. When you have a line blow, like you did, there is no way to determine exactly how much oil to put in, so you kind of have to cheat and guess.
If the problem is intermittent, it probably isn't a worn out compressor. It may be some kind of electrical problem, so you'll still have to monitor system pressure and hopefully catch the problem when it happens.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 2, 2013, 3:33 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Jun 2, 2013, 3:43 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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The only compressor shut down that this system has is a high pressure cutout switch that trips at 455PSI and there is no way you hit that pressure at idle with the fan running.
It has an evaporator temp sensor that can shut down the compressor if the evaporator freezes but that didn't happen at idle either.
If I understand your explanation, you are saying that the temp gradually rises to 60 degrees during a 30 minute idle. There is no possible way for you to get 60 degrees with the compressor off for 30 minutes. It will climb to the 80s within 5 minutes of no compressor.
One possibility of intermittent clutch drop out would be a weak magnet with excessive air gap that drops out when the charging voltage drops at idle but again, after 5 minutes, it would be steaming hot in the car.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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sjb0151
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Jun 2, 2013, 5:09 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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Correction, The temp at the vent is pretty consistent ~ 40 when the car is moving. In traffic the temp goes up to about 60 and then stops blowing cold air al together. I should have mentioned that in the beginning. Once the car starts to move the temp goes back to ~ 40.
From this the I can see the best way to trouble shoot this probelm is to reproduce the failure and have the garage put gauges on the car.
Since there is no way to tell how much oil is the AC without flushing the entire system does nayone have any experience or is there a rule of thumb when a condenser line blow off how much oil is lost and should be releaced. I read that when the condenser is replaced 1.5 t0 2 oz should be added.
Thanks everyone for all the great comments
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 2, 2013, 5:34 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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OK - You can't make it do it other than this traffic jam situation. How hot is hot in this case? An 80-90+F day's air temp (example) isn't the same temp the thing is exposed to if no breeze, dark asphalt can get real toasty, some radiant heat back from radiator plus general heat from vehicles around you.
The clutch gap should be checked and easy enough. Just off see how close it is to .020 or about too tight for a standard paper of a folded biz card. The magnetic power to engage is less when hot then when cooler. Not usually a problem as if that hot I would think you'd have a total failure by now of clutch/coil assy.
How hot is it where this happens? Is this behavior brand new and now you frequently are exposed to this traffic for so long all the time?
I doubt this is an oil situation and it is guessing as DS said. With a blowout it's harder guessing. Some would and I did when doing this stuff look at the mess as a clue.
I'm just interested in what temps you are exposed to and how you are measuring the temps too,
T
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Hammer Time
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Jun 2, 2013, 5:37 PM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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You're still not real clear on how hot the air will get if left idling. If it really stays at 60, there is no way the compressor is not running.
The manufacturer doesn't give a total oil capacity of the system, only what's in the compressor and that is 4 ounces so I would have added 3-4 ounces in your situation.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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studley
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Jun 12, 2013, 5:44 AM
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Re: 2004 Sienna AC gets warm in traffic after condenser replaced
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OP was this an OEM condenser bought from a dealer or aftermarket one?
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