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1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug


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oddgca
User

Jul 22, 2018, 6:25 PM

Post #1 of 10 (311 views)
1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

Hello,After driving 80 km highway with moderate speed (95 km/h) and 10 km city traffic at a hot day (32 C) the engine lost lots of cooling fluid through the plug of the expansion tank when backing up the car into the drive way.The car is old, made 1997 and having driven 209 000 km.
The next day, cooling fluid (water) was topped up and the engine was run idling for about a half hour.The thermostat seams to work well. Hot water is flowing in and out the radiator.The water pump was pumping well, but with a little bit of noise. The cooling water pump was replaced about 4 years ago and the car was driven about 22 000 km since then. Therefore I think, the pump should not be the problem. However I checked the noise of the pump on our Taurus 2000. This runs a bit quieter.
However the radiator fans did not start. The 40 A fuse in the engine compartment is in order, but I could not find yet the "constant control relay module" (Haynes Repair Manual) with the HEDF and EDF relays. To jump the relay contacts and see whether the fans are working.I still had some problems to identify the contacts of the PCM leading to the engine coolant temperature sensor. If I'm right, it should be 31,38 and 91. I will check it tomorrow.
The sensor seems to be a pt 100 resistance sensor and it should change its resistance regarding the the cooling water temperature.
I would appreciate very much, if you have some advice how to correct this problem!Thank you!Otto


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 22, 2018, 7:19 PM

Post #2 of 10 (302 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

There's a real good chance you have cooked this engine completely. The heads and head gaskets are very fragile and all it takes is one good overheating.

The CCRM is a sealed unit so there is no jumping of relays. If you want to test the fan motors, just run power and ground directly to it.



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oddgca
User

Jul 23, 2018, 7:00 AM

Post #3 of 10 (276 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

At what temperature of the cooling water the radiator cooling fans should start?Otto


Discretesignals
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Jul 23, 2018, 7:39 AM

Post #4 of 10 (271 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

Do the fans come on when you turn on the AC?





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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 23, 2018, 8:34 AM

Post #5 of 10 (269 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

There are 2 fan circuits and 2 fan speeds.

Low speed should kick on about 216deg.

It is fairly common for the fan to burn out the low speed resister and lose low speed. You would have to use a wiring diagram and test both circuits in the fan.

The low speed feed wire is red/orange

The high speed feed is gray/red





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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



oddgca
User

Jul 26, 2018, 8:08 AM

Post #6 of 10 (227 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

Hi,
Many thanks for all the advice. (I was hold off with other problems: On our Taurus 2000 failed the starter motor at 174000 km. Repair was not possible, the brushes were down significantly and a rebuild unit was purchased and installed) Therefore I had not much time for testing the fan circuit on the Sable. On an about 15 km drive (to get the starter motor) the expansion tank boiled over again when the car was stopped. The fans did not work. I had checked as much as possible on the circuits. The Engine Coolant Sensor and the Intake Air Temperature Sensor seem to work well. When cold the resistance is very high (about 29 kOhm). When the cooling water got warmer the resistance dropped (to about 6.4 kOhm). An observation on the Taurus 2000: When driving about 10 km the fans were running. When I opened the hood. The fans stopped. Is there an ambient temperature sensor involved to operate the fans?As a temporary measure I will open the wire harness on the CCRM and connect two wires to the ones coming from the fuse and leading to the fans and connect them to a switch in the compartment, because I need the car for a longer drive.Otto


oddgca
User

Jul 26, 2018, 8:24 AM

Post #7 of 10 (223 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

Or is there a better way? Can the HEDF relay in the CCRM activated with an outside signal? To avoid interference with the PCM some wires might have to be disconnected.Otto


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 26, 2018, 12:54 PM

Post #8 of 10 (209 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In


Quote
As a temporary measure I will open the wire harness on the CCRM and connect two wires to the ones coming from the fuse and leading to the fans and connect them to a switch in the compartment, because I need the car for a longer drive.Otto




That is totally asinine.

I've already advised you on how to approach this.

If you're not going to fix it, then park it before you start a fire.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



oddgca
User

Aug 30, 2018, 3:43 PM

Post #9 of 10 (140 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

Thank you for all the help!The problem was finally solved after temperature sensor, thermostat, fans were found in order. Suspected was also the serpentine belt. The belt tensioner was on its maximum. A new belt was installed. However the problem was of unbelievable banality. The relief valve of the expansion tank plug was defective. The plug was a little bit damaged but was working for some years well during summer and winter. Only at the latest heat wave the pressure built up was too much for the defective valve. A new plug was installed and the engine cooling system works well again.Otto


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Aug 30, 2018, 3:55 PM

Post #10 of 10 (138 views)
Re: 1997 Mercury Sable GS Wagon V6 3 ltr overcooked and lost cooling fluid through the the expanansion tank plug Sign In

That doesn't make much sense at all. A pressure cap cannot prevent an overheating unless it was just causing you to lose fluid.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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