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cvitech
New User
Oct 21, 2007, 8:00 PM
Post #1 of 4
(3399 views)
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1996 Ford Club Wagon
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Little history here. The A/C was working good until I believe the compressor seal blew allowing the freon to leak out. Took it to a shop for repair and they put more freon in because they couldn't find the problem (or leak at the time). They did put a dye in it so if it leaked again they would know where it leaked from. Filling it with freon solved the problem until it blew again. Took it back to the shop and they determined that the compressor needed to be replaced and there was a leak in the evaporator. Well I have it back and it is not cooling like it should. On a warm day it just not putting out enough cold air to keep it cool. This is a 1996 Ford Econline CLub Wagon Van with a V-8 and rear A/C Heater unit. I have taken it back to the shop but they cannot find anything wrong with it. The freon level is good with no leaks. They shop has replaced some other parts trying to fix it at thier expense (I don't know what they have replace). Any direction on this would be greatly appreciated.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 22, 2007, 1:46 AM
Post #2 of 4
(3397 views)
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Re: 1996 Ford Club Wagon
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Dual A/C is a very involved set up and problems can be difficult and expensive which I'm sure you have duly noted.
As you found to begin with leak(s) are responsible for most partial or complete loss of cooling power - like about 65%.
This system uses one compressor, one condenser, two evaporators, two different styles of throttling the refrigerant at the evaporators and lots of hoses that even go under the vehicle. The two different throttling devices are used in most of the systems I know of which would be an "O" tube for the front and a TVX for the rear.
No matter but in lay terms this is like two buzzards(evaporators) fighting over the same carcass (compressor) and they have different abilities. Front O tube system will gobble whatever it's given but can only take so much and the rear TVX will be efficient when there's plenty but chow down more when it's hungry than the front.
The first time cooling failed just putting the correct charge back everyone was happy. That's a good sign that all the components were in decent shape but the leak still existed. With a leak and charge going low the "freon" (call it refrigerant) the system still tries till it's too low to produce cooling effect and the problem is oil is moved thru the system and returned to the compressor to keep it lubed and low level of refrigerant can't move the oil and can burn up a good compressor and in doing so debris gets shot into the system and not all those parts can be cleaned up by a flush not mentioned by you in the repair so far.
A/C really wants the exact right amount of refrigerant to both allow for cooling and the lubrication of the compressor. This should hold exactly 64oz of 134a refrigerant. Any decal underhood should take priority over listed capacities.
It can only be known how much is in there by removing what is in there and refilling with the exact amount. If your shop does not have that equipment it's a real handicap for the success of the job. It probably just needs to be evacuated and filled precisely right now but may have suffered from debris which would be noticed at the "O" tube and then a total system flush is in order and replacement of the "O" tube and rear TVX. Some condensers can't be effectively cleaned out and must be discarded.
It sounds like your shop is trying their best and they are frustrated as you are and this is costing big $$ and is not solved yet.
Who needs the help the most right now. You or the shop? This is difficult stuff and they know it. Specific approaches to this exact system not just general A/C know how may be needed. If this was in front of me I would do as already said and vacuum out what is in there now and recharge it to correct weight and that would either end the problems or allow for accurate diagnosis of what's next.
This is not for the faint of heart or weak of wallet. Just look at what it takes just to charge a system when all components are in good working order as I'll make clickable below with links to a site I work at out of AZ called ACSOURCE.COM (go to forums)
Click this just for the read or copy it.....
http://www.autoclimas.com/...igerant%20charge.php
Here to help you and or your shop get thru this,
T
(edit as that site didn't click the first try - now should)
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Oct 22, 2007, 2:04 AM)
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cvitech
New User
Oct 22, 2007, 6:35 PM
Post #3 of 4
(3386 views)
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Re: 1996 Ford Club Wagon
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Tom,
Thanks for the reply. Its great that someone like you is here trying to help. When I picked up the van the first time, we left the next day for vacation. While on vacation I took it to a raidator shop to see if it was just low on freon. They vacumed all the freon out and put it back in (fancy machine). The tech said it was about 2 oz low. He did put his gauges on it. I cannot remeber but I think he said the HI side was lower than it should be. He also was pouring water on the inside of the engine (don't know exactly what part) trying to cool it down. Did not make a difference. He said that by pouring the water on it (???) the air conditioner should have kicked in putting out cold air (it did not). Have taken back to the orginal shop that did the work since then. I know they have replaced some additional parts. Currently, I have my car in for repairs and soon as they are done I will be dropping the Van back off. I will find out what has been done. I have all the confiendence that they will get it. They are very good people and they will make good on their work. Thanks for the explanation of the dual units. I guess all things are possible but I wondering if we are concentrating on the unit up front and forgeting there is a unit in back (dirty TVX ????). I will keep you updated on the progress and may need your expertise in this......
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 23, 2007, 2:04 AM
Post #4 of 4
(3385 views)
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Re: 1996 Ford Club Wagon
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The best part here is you have a shop that cares. The dual air systems are funky to diagnose when they no longer have a leak and don't perform it gets tricky. The rear system can be a glutton on the system and because it shares the same supply of condensed refrigerant (freon) it can win but neither will work well.
The use of water on the condenser takes out the guesswork of how well fan(s) are working for condenser and radiator.
Operating pressures are a good indicator of how well the system is working. On dual systems the pressures get screwey when both are on so you get better info just using the front system.
The O tube (orafice tube) and TVX (or whatever is used there) really can't be cleaned. If they are found to have debris that is the problem like a fuel filter that continually gets plugged you would find out the source of the debris. I doubt this is the problem right now.
Here to help as I can,
T
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