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car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm


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lightbulb
Novice

Jul 14, 2019, 4:55 AM

Post #1 of 17 (216 views)
car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

People,

1987 Sunbird GT non turbo, when cold engine, and accelerating, the car jerks back/forth, struggling at about 3000 -4000 rpm's. manual transmission. But after say, 5 minutes, as it warms up, problem goes away. Recent cylinder head replaced, but leaking oil at camshaft carrier, and blue smoke coming out of tail pipe. Head gasket blew with coolant spewing everywhere, before head gasket replacement.

I dont think the oil burning should be the cause, do you? Maybe head gasket was not put on right and coolant is seeping into cylinders when car is shut off, sits overnight, and upon startup car runs rough because of coolant mixing with fuel(?). But shouldnt that be spit out immediately, and not for 5 minutes?

I checked the OHMS on both temp sensor and air temp sensor inside air filter housing, both checked out OK.

Thanks.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 14, 2019, 5:29 AM

Post #2 of 17 (208 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

IDK at the age and new head properly done? For now just check spark plugs for evidence of anything. All should look the same bet one or two look different? Coolant if just a little bit would take a little time to burn away but doesn't fire would boil out.
Next just because is check back pressure for restricted cat conv. would clog usually a smooth loss of power at first but would check,


T



lightbulb
Novice

Jul 14, 2019, 7:15 AM

Post #3 of 17 (196 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


In Reply To
IDK at the age and new head properly done? For now just check spark plugs for evidence of anything. All should look the same bet one or two look different? Coolant if just a little bit would take a little time to burn away but doesn't fire would boil out.
Next just because is check back pressure for restricted cat conv. would clog usually a smooth loss of power at first but would check,


T


In Reply To

Thanks, T. I should mention that the head was entirely machined at a shop- valves, etc. I do have to do it all, over again, though. Then maybe go from there.

I just drained the oil and got no coolant residue in it. Thats a good thing. If coolant is not drained in oil pan, does that necessarily mean that it is not seeping into the cylinders?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 14, 2019, 7:24 AM

Post #4 of 17 (192 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


Quote
I just drained the oil and got no coolant residue in it. Thats a good thing. If coolant is not drained in oil pan, does that necessarily mean that it is not seeping into the cylinders?



No, that just means it's not leaking into the crankcase which would be rare anyway. If it's leaking into the cylinder, it's exiting out the exhaust.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 14, 2019, 8:02 AM

Post #5 of 17 (186 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

Yup: If heavily machined IDK the list of maybe issue but can find them. It's totally possible to have this as a useful car probably best for more local use only now but still can be fine - depends on how horrible something is that you MAY find.
IMO, not collectible but an OK working set of wheels a chance to save vs tons newer thing more costly. For me used parts would be hopeless now the last place is closed that kept a clean old something if of any interest for dinky stuff - miss that.
You've made this investment whatever that cost worth giving some checks and thing a look and try.
Same as Hammer said, no coolant in oil only means that not that it's right. It can burn it, leak unseen onto hot items you'll see a drop in coolant and or evidence on plugs decide what you wish to do or have done,


T



lightbulb
Novice

Jul 14, 2019, 8:28 AM

Post #6 of 17 (182 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

Thanks, people. Good to know. Still, glad none is making its way down to the engine/oil pan. I can easily redo the head gasket. Got little to lose. I have plenty of time, and heck, gives me something to do. It's a 2nd car. Drive to work every day.

Update: did compression test- dry got 175 psi each cylinder, then added a teaspoon of oil and got 195. Is this normal ? Does it mean my rings are probably OK? If so, why am I getting burning blue smoke out tail pipe?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 14, 2019, 9:38 AM

Post #7 of 17 (174 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

Compression a little high if even close lower end and valves should be I good shape. The jerking can be weak wiring, coil or coil packs and more. If this isn't all rusted out you can chase that down as a second car it's a wild savings and a gamble.
Used anything is a gamble at least you aren't at the high roller games with this. New is so costly doesn't solve it for many in no time it's used too, :-)


Tom



lightbulb
Novice

Jul 14, 2019, 11:49 AM

Post #8 of 17 (168 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


In Reply To
Compression a little high if even close lower end and valves should be I good shape. The jerking can be weak wiring, coil or coil packs and more. If this isn't all rusted out you can chase that down as a second car it's a wild savings and a gamble.
Used anything is a gamble at least you aren't at the high roller games with this. New is so costly doesn't solve it for many in no time it's used too, :-)


Tom


I wil check for sparks tonight in the dark near coil. Thanks, Tom.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 14, 2019, 12:31 PM

Post #9 of 17 (159 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

Hmmm? Trick if dark is either a spark tester ground one end and other go near coil and wires it can flash. AYOR spray very slightly salted water over coil pack (engine cool/cold) conducts electricity of spark voltages will show might stall it out. At least you see right where it shouldn't. Can refresh it with WD-40 or other stuff called "wire dryer" still.
When out you'll see carbon tracing of the fault if really there sometimes not but know it's wrong.
Again - plugs should all look the same if one different go looking for why,


T



lightbulb
Novice

Jul 14, 2019, 2:49 PM

Post #10 of 17 (153 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


In Reply To
Hmmm? Trick if dark is either a spark tester ground one end and other go near coil and wires it can flash. AYOR spray very slightly salted water over coil pack (engine cool/cold) conducts electricity of spark voltages will show might stall it out. At least you see right where it shouldn't. Can refresh it with WD-40 or other stuff called "wire dryer" still.
When out you'll see carbon tracing of the fault if really there sometimes not but know it's wrong.
Again - plugs should all look the same if one different go looking for why,


T


Wow, good tip on using salt water to spray. Will do that. What is carbon tracing? Plugs all look good, and the same. It has a distributor cap. 1987 sunbird. Will spray dist cap.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 14, 2019, 3:14 PM

Post #11 of 17 (147 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

I actually use blue window cleaner but IDK what you have or what tap water or other. Distilled does not conduct any electricity, sodium/chloride (salt) water does. Not tons just pollute it a bit and just a mist/damp don't drown things :-)


T



lightbulb
Novice

Jul 14, 2019, 4:00 PM

Post #12 of 17 (144 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


In Reply To
I actually use blue window cleaner but IDK what you have or what tap water or other. Distilled does not conduct any electricity, sodium/chloride (salt) water does. Not tons just pollute it a bit and just a mist/damp don't drown things :-)


T


OK, I get it now. A tiny bit of salt. Light spray, not a rain storm......


lightbulb
Novice

Jul 15, 2019, 3:13 PM

Post #13 of 17 (100 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

No sparks at all. So this morning, opened up distributor and found one connector to ignition module with no insulation! Even they were not touching (3 tiny slip connectors) something must have been going on with the 3 uninsulated terminals. I removed distributor, and on bench I removed each one, and wrapped in elec tape. Drove it cold engine and problem disappeared!! I figured it out!!

ya just gotta keep at it. Now I just have to figure out how to stop the seepage under camshaft carrier where it meets the head. Ever try that stop leak for motor oil?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 15, 2019, 3:32 PM

Post #14 of 17 (96 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


Quote
Now I just have to figure out how to stop the seepage under camshaft carrier where it meets the head. Ever try that stop leak for motor oil?


No, definitely no stop leak.

Sounds like you are just talking about a valve cover gasket. It's no big deal. less than an hour to change.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



lightbulb
Novice

Jul 15, 2019, 4:22 PM

Post #15 of 17 (90 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


In Reply To

Quote
Now I just have to figure out how to stop the seepage under camshaft carrier where it meets the head. Ever try that stop leak for motor oil?


No, definitely no stop leak.

Sounds like you are just talking about a valve cover gasket. It's no big deal. less than an hour to change.


No, where camshaft carrier meets cylinder head. Just one spot, 1/2" wide, seeepage.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 15, 2019, 4:40 PM

Post #16 of 17 (88 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In

There is no solution without taking the housing off. It appears it uses silicone and not a gasket to seal that.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



lightbulb
Novice

Jul 16, 2019, 2:03 PM

Post #17 of 17 (64 views)
Re: car jerks severely at 3000+ rpm Sign In


In Reply To
There is no solution without taking the housing off. It appears it uses silicone and not a gasket to seal that.


Thanks, but yes, youre right- there is no gasket but I found out that machined surfaced require anearobic sealant, NOT silicone type. I must have put it on wrong by flattening it out with my finger . My fault.






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