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Town & Country Brake Troubles
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 24, 2012, 12:51 AM
Post #1 of 31
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Town & Country Brake Troubles
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Hello there! The car I'm having issues with is a 1994 Chrysler Town & Country AWD 3.8L with more mileage than you'd believe. I'll start with the most important problem first. I have next to no braking when the car is running and only slightly more with the car off. I cannot build any real pressure in lines with the car on or off. I must apologize here for I have only had the chance to bleed one side so far, I wil try the other side tomorrow. Fluid reaches the drivers side front brake normally during bleeding but I still cannot build any pressure in the lines. The drivers side rear brake is a whole different problem, absolutely no fluid goes to the rear during bleeding. The brake reservoir is full and no fluid is leaking anywhere. None of the lines appear to be crimped or damaged in any way either. It is also worth noting that the front calipers, shoes, and rotors have all been replaced recently although I do not believe that has caused the aforementioned problem. The problem was not exactly sudden but it took less than three days to develop to the point it is at now.
The second problem is likely connected to the first in some way and has been going on for much longer. The van gradually developed a front driver's side brake grab that would not be present while the car was off and not until the car had been driven for a few miles. It was minor at first and may have been going on for a short while before I noticed. I eventually felt the drag that the brake was having tried to adjust my driving style to prevent the brake from grabbing as hard. Eventually it progressed to the point that the brake would actually smoke after the car had been driven for a while. I didn't yet have the money to replace parts (I had assumed I had a warped rotor or sticking piston or something along those lines) so I was forced to drive the van for a few more days, I'll admit, I was foolish and made a mistake doing so. One day the brake grabbed particularly hard and tore the rotor clean in half. I now didn't have a choice so I had no choice but to pony up the cash and replace the rotor, caliper, and shoes. I did both of the front brakes just as a precaution. The problem is, the front driver's side brake still sticks while driving. Not as hard as it was before, but I don't doubt that the same thing will happen again if I don't do something. Fortunately I was able to stop driving this car regularly soon after I replaced the brake parts and was forced not to drive it at all shortly thereafter due to the first problem occurring.
Thank you all for reading this, if I have omitted any information you require please let me know. I will be checking in on this thread frequently as I am at a bit of a loss right now. I'm much more used to my simple old El Camino.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 24, 2012, 1:33 AM
Post #2 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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So far I haven't seen any flex hoses being replaced. The rubber flex hose to calipers can fail inside them unseen such that fluid pressure can't return. Some, even without using brakes just build up pressure from expanded brake fluid and that brake will drag. If so or if somehow still original - do both fronts or all of them at this age and as you indicated, high miles.
Those flex hoses on Mopars go to a brake line with a long flare nut that easily corrodes to the metal line inside so be ready to make up new line if they will not cooperate.
You said you've only bled out one side? Not much point in brake feel till all are known free of air in the system. Fresh brake fluid would be good for it all around and may take a pressure bleeder to accomplish it - when all else is right,
T
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dr.donut
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Jun 24, 2012, 7:23 AM
Post #3 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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the one bleeder maybe so coroded that the fluid won't go through, you can replace it or take it out and clean it, to bleed brakes you start with the one farthest from the master cyl, and work toward the closest, I crack the bleeder with a short hose on it that runs upward so that air that comes out can not go back in, then slightly push the brake peddle no more than an inch, nice and easy, the bleeder is open the whole time saving the ,"open it, close it"" dialog when using an assistant, you should feel it get a little stiffer, and if you have drum brakes in the rear and they are worn,(drums and shoes) that small amount of play will take up alot of peddle, and even if the brakes are bled the peddle will still hit the floor untill you tighten up that situation, and before I compress the front caliper piston I pull back the rubber boot and give it shot of WD40, this helps the caliper relax, when you see a front wheel cover that is dark thats brake dust from a clinging caliper, I am not "lord god of auto repair" but I hope that helps, it's never done me wrong
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 24, 2012, 7:34 AM
Post #4 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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Quote from original post ">>It is also worth noting that the front calipers, shoes, and rotors have all been replaced recently although I do not believe that has caused the aforementioned problem.<<"
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Bleeders shouldn't be the issue if calipers recently were replaced but was just thinking the bolt that holds hose on could be the culprit too. Those can usually just be cleared out if blocked solid. If nothing on that wheel that is in a cards as a maybe,
T
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 24, 2012, 9:03 AM
Post #5 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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Hi there guys, thanks for the advice so far. I'll give the brakes a real bleeding today and I'll look into replacing those front flex hoses. It has been a while since I've done those. The rear brakes are drums however and do not have flex hoses. I'm still wondering what would stop fluid completely from going to the driver's side rear.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 24, 2012, 9:14 AM
Post #6 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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Rear isn't making a front wheel drag in anything I can think of? There just may be two flex hoses or at least one for rear. I just can't recall if this is independently rear suspended or a plain axle but with AWD it wouldn't be like one without back there,
T
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 24, 2012, 9:38 AM
Post #7 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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It's a plain rear axle with AWD.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 24, 2012, 10:33 AM
Post #8 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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One axle mean just one flex hose usually and it isn't subject to the trauma of a front one and wouldn't be the cause of the troubles so far anyway but glance at the thing if you are under there just for rust or cracks,
T
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 24, 2012, 10:41 AM
Post #9 of 31
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Re: Town & Country Brake Troubles
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Alright, will do. I'm going to replace the front flex hoses anyway, problem or not because I know they haven't been changed for at least the last 250k miles. I have a car show to get to, so I won't be back here for at least 4 hours, hopefully I will have had time to get to the brake bleeding by then.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 24, 2012, 10:47 AM
Post #10 of 31
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OMG - That many miles and the age and still original! Remember they have to ride up and down AND twist with steering plus first shot at road conditions!
Again - if the brake line into hose end is trouble try if it looks decent not to twist it up and if it goes we can discuss making up line properly.
Good luck,
T
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 24, 2012, 1:49 PM
Post #11 of 31
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Actually the front flex lines have been replaced 3 times prior to this. When I said this van has a lot of miles, I mean a LOT of miles. 
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 24, 2012, 7:52 PM
Post #12 of 31
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Newer or not if NG it's NG - hoses again, check those bolts that allows fluid flow. It's that or defective parts and not ready to believe that so far,
T
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Sidom
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Jun 24, 2012, 8:17 PM
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Is the rubber gasket the seals the master cylinder reservoir cap swollen & distorted and doesn't seem to fit the cap anymore?
(This post was edited by Sidom on Jun 24, 2012, 8:17 PM)
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 25, 2012, 3:04 PM
Post #14 of 31
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Nope, cap seals are brand new. Interestingly enough I discovered (before the posting of this thread) that there was an extra cap seal that had somehow ended up stuck inside the master cylinder reservoir. I'm not sure where this gasket came from, I've changed the cap seals several times before and never lost track of a gasket. Odd as this is, the removal of this extra gasket seal has made no difference in the way the braking system acts. It is also important to note that the gasket seal I removed from the reservoir is undamaged.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Sidom
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Jun 25, 2012, 3:52 PM
Post #15 of 31
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I was referring to the "original" seals. If anything besides DOT3 brake fluid was used in that system. Then the whole system is contaminate and every rubber part would need to be replaced.
A good indicator is the rubber cap on the master gets swollen & distorted because of the contamination. Every other rubber piece will do the same as the cap and it causes all kinds of brk problems.....
A big mistake people make is to use power steering fluid or ATF......
Edit...I missed that last sentence......Yes it is a good thing if it is in its original form & undistorted
(This post was edited by Sidom on Jun 25, 2012, 4:16 PM)
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 25, 2012, 5:10 PM
Post #16 of 31
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Definitely no fluid contamination. While I'm not the most experienced with newer cars I have rebuilt just about every inch of my El Camino so I have a decent amount of mechanical knowledge. Sorry I haven't yet gotten back to you guys with the results of the brake bleeding. Hopefully I will get a chance in the next couple days. The temperature being over 106 is a little annoying but it won't stop me from doing the brakes.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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nickwarner
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Jun 25, 2012, 6:52 PM
Post #17 of 31
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I'm going to go back to your first post and comment. You said you only bled the left side. You can't bleed that way and get a good result. You must go from the furthest from the master to closest. The right rear, left rear, right front, left front in that order.
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Vetro_Radox
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Jun 25, 2012, 7:02 PM
Post #18 of 31
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Indeed, I was mostly checking to see if I was getting fluid to the brakes. I included that information in my original post just to mention that no fluid was getting to the left rear at all. I ran out of time then to do an actual brake bleeding so I will have to do a real one soon.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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nickwarner
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Jun 26, 2012, 2:15 PM
Post #19 of 31
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Follow the brake lines right near the gas tank and there is a residual pressure valve for the rear brakes. See if you have fluid coming in and going out of it.
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Vetro_Radox
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Jul 10, 2012, 2:36 PM
Post #20 of 31
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Hello again, sorry for the large delay in response, life got in the way a bit. I have now replaced the master cylinder because I discovered the old one was leaking at the back. I then bled all the brakes and now braking is not bad at all. I still need to replace the front flex hoses but that shouldn't be any trouble. There is still one problem. During bleeding no fluid would come out of the left rear bleeder. I then decided to pull the line off to see if fluid was even getting to the wheel cylinder. As soon as I turned the line fluid came out of the bleeder. So I closed the line up and tried to bleed that brake again, no fluid. I cannot undo that brake line without damaging it due to rust so I will probably have to replace the line anyway. Could I possibly have a clogged wheel cylinder or something?
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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nickwarner
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Jul 10, 2012, 2:41 PM
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You could have a bad bleeder screw. Take it completely out and see if fluid will come through the hole. If so you can get individual brake bleeders at the parts stores. Its really a small passage in them for fluid and if they get a bit of rust in them won't flow through at all.
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Vetro_Radox
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Jul 10, 2012, 3:52 PM
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I actually did try it with the bleeder screw out. No fluid then either. I should've mentioned that in my last post.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Discretesignals
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Jul 10, 2012, 4:12 PM
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You trying to bleed the rear brakes with the wheels off the ground?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Vetro_Radox
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Jul 10, 2012, 5:22 PM
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Up on jack stands actually. The rear right didn't have any trouble with bleeding however.
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1972 El Camino 1997 Land Cruiser 1994 Chrysler Town & Country
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Discretesignals
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Jul 10, 2012, 5:26 PM
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That has that height sensing proportioning valve I believe. It's the thing the rear brake lines run to that has a spring attached to it that is connected to the suspension. We had one a while back where the valve got stuck and was blocking off brake pressure. It can also be plugged up with contamination too.
If the rear suspension is hanging down, the proportioning valve will block off.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jul 10, 2012, 5:29 PM)
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