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Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'


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oddgca
User

Jun 26, 2015, 6:59 PM

Post #1 of 9 (1027 views)
  post locked   Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

When the car was inspected by a mechanic I was told that the problem is the ball joint of the left front.
Since I had changed the right front ball joint a year ago I did the same om the left side.
By road testing the car after the repair driving sharp S turns and full braking several times it behaved well without any shaking.
After a drive on the highway for about 100 km and exiting I had to brake. The shaking of the steering wheel and the whole car was back.
What could be the problem?
Please help me if possible. I like the wagon and don't like to scrap it after the time I spend repairing it.
Otto


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jun 27, 2015, 4:11 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1012 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

Ball joints don't cause shaking at all but could make an existing one feel worse. Don't forget now you have those to grease most likely and origs usually do not.


Shaking while braking is near always from the rotor not being true. If this is new to recent any wheel removal (front) the rotor could have crud/rust between it and hub that falls down unseen and when wheel tightened up isn't really on true to the hub nor safe that way! If left like that rotor would wear into being wrong and probably require a front brake job + new rotors to solve + cleaning the bearing hub face.


You could hoist both front wheels and spin them now and if rim or tire isn't true is a clue it needs paying attention to now.


You didn't mention if it was aligned each ball joint and should have been. Alone if that's off it should cause a shake but would make one worse or wear tires such that they could be a problem now,


T



oddgca
User

Jun 29, 2015, 7:57 AM

Post #3 of 9 (984 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

Thank you T

I did an alignment myself using string and measuring tape.

As you advised I will lift up both wheels and check the rotors. When the wheels are off, the rotor disk will be fastened with the wheel lock nuts and I plan to run the car at about 40 km p.h., do some braking and observe where the shaking originates.

Hoping this will help me to find the problem.
Otto


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 29, 2015, 8:32 AM

Post #4 of 9 (981 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

OMG - I thought this site had discussed about everything like DIY alignments. Yes they made kits or had measurements using string and such - kit sold by J. C. Whitney if I recall on a 60's Plymouth Signet.


For this car you could probably get some fair idea of just tow but pointless IMO as one adjustment changes another so it's just basic guessing till you get a real alignment - 4 wheel, thrust angles and even the best of those change if you so much as have a load in th trunk or full or low tank of fuel!


The rotor thing. A repeat but is common to me and can happen just changing tires around if rotor isn't fixed tight to hub and can move at all now any debris if any can fall down. It would appear like a bent wheel with it put back on and lug nuts tightened up and isn't the wheel or tire at all.


To inspect first know wheel isn't turning true and another doesn't either? Clue that there's an issue. You need to remove whole caliper and bracket to remove rotor and scrape the surfaces clean. When found I put the thinnest film of grease never to touch friction parts so it doesn't do that again soon. Some might be so bad you need to do rotors and hence a brake job.


So far this only happens on vehicles with rotors on hubs that somehow didn't rust stuck and stayed just loose enough to be free when not held tight by the wheel being on.


Hubs usually were useable, some rotors were just so bad they needed to be replaced. All of those issues also happened instantly upon just loosening up a wheel and doesn't happen until that is done.


If you do fine one that's done that you need to check all,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 29, 2015, 12:06 PM

Post #5 of 9 (978 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  


Quote
I did an alignment myself using string and measuring tape.


All that's going to get you is maybe close enough to drive straight to the alignment shop. I guarantee it's not even close.



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oddgca
User

Jul 1, 2015, 10:22 AM

Post #6 of 9 (945 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

T

I checked the front drive system again. The right wheel turn well clean, the left one is not running true. When taking the wheel off and tightening the rotor with lock nuts to the hub, the same happened when the car is running in first gear. The brake pad holder is wandering in and out in the slighting pins. Without the rotor the hub is running true.
I assume the problem is the rotor.
The front surface of the rotor is nice and clean. The inner side of the rotor is uneven worn down. Why is that?
I have not checked the brake pads yet.
It might be one or two years ago, when I serviced and cleaned the calibers and installed new rotors and new pads. The problem might be, that the car was resting last summer for two month and last winter for one month outdoors.
I will check further and try a new rotor and new brake pads.
Otto


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 1, 2015, 12:21 PM

Post #7 of 9 (936 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

Quoting Otto">>The brake pad holder is wandering in and out in the slighting pins. Without the rotor the hub is running true. <<"


If you can see that, that clearly you really have either a seriously warped rotor and or the debris discussed. You said now it's worn into this so that rotor is junk and suggestions will be always do brake stuff in pair for each axle meaning both fronts or rears you do each side the same.


If this shows wear on rotor at a glance without measuring it and you feel it shake it's been bad for quite a while/miles. Why are you just noticing this now?


Only thing I can think of is this caliper is probably a "floating" caliper (many are) such that one piston applies pressure to both pads - no problem at all but moving the pins that much is going to wear out the grease so they should be free and now if not as free you feel it.
That puts into question if one side of pads is notably worn more than the other side time to go nuts and do a real whole brake job, calipers, rotors, flex hoses and any hardware not included with new parts. Pins take a look as those are not always needed.


THIS REALLY SOUNDS LIKE IT NEEDS ALL THIS NOW. No faking it anymore. You said you aligned this with string which if was even possible (NOT) you like anyone want to save a buck. That could cost you a set of tires! No savings.


Brakes not right - holy crap buddy - no limit to the dangers of that!!!!


NO FAKING THIS NOW (meaning just toss in new pads thing) on brakes!) You might be real surprised that it really isn't way too expensive to do all I just mentioned for a common vehicle - check prices at the outlet of your choice now. Big box parts outlets compete and many w free shipping if not near one or more if you spend a bit,


T



oddgca
User

Jul 5, 2015, 5:24 PM

Post #8 of 9 (915 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

T

You are right! I should have contacted the forum at the beginning and could have saved a lot of work.
By installing a new brake rotor the left wheel runs true and there is no shaking anymore when braking.
This will give the car some time until I made up my mind to scrap it.
Therefore the thread might be closed.

Otto


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 6, 2015, 4:37 AM

Post #9 of 9 (908 views)
  post locked   Re: Sable 97 shakes when brake is applied'  

Glad you found it otto: Will close thread and only add that if you were NOT scrapping the car I'd suggest doing both.


You can re open thread by asking any moderator if YOU wish, T







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