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Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped


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Joe J
Novice

May 30, 2017, 10:34 AM

Post #1 of 13 (7081 views)
  post locked   Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Hey guys, a few days ago the reduced engine power light came on in my 2006 Saturn Vue. Reading online it looks like it could be a lot of different things, but I started by looking at the throttle body assy. I noticed that when I press the gas pedal the actuator doesn't turn.

I went to the junk yard today and ripped off another throttle body, popped it in and same deal. I tried having it relearn the idle position by clearing the codes, letting it run for several minutes, turning it off, then turning it back on but no luck. I still have a check engine light and reduced engine power light which come back immediately after clearing. I checked the connector and it looks like all the wires are intact but I did rip another connector off at the junk yard that I could replace it with but I'm having doubts that would fix the issue. I also checked all of the fuse's for the ECM/TCM/PCM but they were all fine.

I'm curious what my next step should be. I'm thinking the next bet is to go back to the junk yard and get a new gas pedal assembly. If the engine revs up when I press it, wouldnt this mean the pedal assy is okay though? I figure it could also be the PCM as well, but since everything else in the car works I cant see why the computer would be broken. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but the PCM and the cars "computer" are the same thing? A new one of those from autozone is $500 so I'd like to save that as my last resort.

Thanks! And below is some logs from my bluetooth OBD2 scanner. I should note that the RPM gauge shows 1300 RPMs but the log shows 1800.

Freeze frame information:
------------------
Fuel Status = 0 byte
Engine Load = 55.686 %
Engine Coolant Temperature = 201.2 °F
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term = 0 %
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term = 2.344 %
Intake Manifold Pressure = 10.443 psi
Engine RPM = 1,834.5 rpm
Speed (OBD) = 0 mph
Timing Advance = 4.5 °
Intake Air Temperature = 136.4 °F
Throttle Position(Manifold) = 38.431 %

Current Fault Log
------------------
P2101: Throttle Actuator Control Motor Circuit Range/Performance
P2176: Throttle Actuator Control System - Idle Position Not Learned

Pending Fault Log
------------------
P2176: Throttle Actuator Control System - Idle Position Not Learned

Historic Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no historic faults
Other discovered fault codes
(possibly pending, current or manufacturer specific)
----------------------------------------------------
P1682: [Chrysler] Driver 5 Line 2
[Honda] Automatic Transaxle FI Signal A High Input
[Dodge] Driver 5 Line 2
[Jeep] Driver 5 Line 2

B3F16: Unknown code - More information may be available on the web
C205B: Unknown code - More information may be available on the web


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 30, 2017, 10:50 AM

Post #2 of 13 (7073 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

First - Please change your user name and not make it an address. It will attract tons of spam you don't need,


Why didn't you get codes read while at Autozone or if that place doesn't or charges get codes read. I'm not ready to trust much info from a download thru Bluetooth to a device just yet nor a whole lot from places the do it for free usually also just trying to sell you products so just get the codes alone not suggestions.


If you have to pay for a diagnostic and some places it's mandatory do so. You've played and disturbed enough already to confuse even another code reading IMO,


T



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

May 30, 2017, 10:56 AM

Post #3 of 13 (7060 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Which engine? Does your scan tool have bidirectional control? What are the APP and TPS values?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 30, 2017, 11:00 AM)


Joe J
Novice

May 30, 2017, 11:00 AM

Post #4 of 13 (7058 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Thanks for the heads up - changed.

Unfortunately the closest Autozone is 20 minutes out and on a major road. With the reduced power light being on it can only go slow and the engine studders so I was trying to avoid driving it, especially someplace 20 minutes away. I'm having a friend with a real OBD scanner come over tonight or tomorrow so I can verify the information I'm getting from my phone. I'll post that information when I have it.


Joe J
Novice

May 30, 2017, 11:01 AM

Post #5 of 13 (7054 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  


In Reply To
Which engine?


Oops, my bad thought the log had that. It's the 2.2L, 4 cylinder, 5 speed model. Unfortunately at the moment I only have access to my bluetooth OBD2 adapter and I don't believe any apps can get that information.


(This post was edited by Joe J on May 30, 2017, 11:03 AM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

May 30, 2017, 11:06 AM

Post #6 of 13 (7048 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Basically the PCM(powertrain control module) is watching the TPS sensors and is seeing a 5 degree or more difference between the actual position of the throttle and the desired position the computer wants to see.

If you clear the code and turn the ignition from off to on (engine off), does the code reappear without touching the throttle?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Joe J
Novice

May 30, 2017, 11:40 AM

Post #7 of 13 (7032 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

If I turn the ignition on (engine off), clear the codes, turn the ignition off, then turn it back to on(engine off) the code immediately reappears. If I clear the code while the car is running, it almost immediately pops back up as well without touching the throttle. During this entire time, my check engine light stays on.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

May 30, 2017, 11:47 AM

Post #8 of 13 (6896 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Obviously the PCM doesn't like what the throttle position is when you turn the ignition on. Does the old throttle body do the same thing if you repeat the same test? You can plug the old throttle body into the connector without taking the new one off. When you do the test, don't start the engine. Just turn the ignition off to on after you clear the code.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 30, 2017, 11:50 AM)


Joe J
Novice

May 31, 2017, 6:18 PM

Post #9 of 13 (1088 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Sorry for the delayed response, I had to move out of my apartment last night and haven't had a chance to play around with my car.

I just had a friend with a real scanner come over so I could see some of the live data. Some things that we found was that the throttle position was stuck at 38.4% even if you pressed the gas pedal. I'm thinking it might be the rheostat sensor on the pedal itself since its not detecting any changes? Also I'm not sure what this could mean but the SHRTFTB1S1 and SHRTFT1 where both staying at 0%, but hooking the scanner up to my friends car those fluctuated all over the place. I read online that those values are not stored in the cars memory and resets to 0 on every start, so I'm guessing that's why its 0.

To answer your question, the old throttle body does the exact same thing as the new one that I put in.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 31, 2017, 6:38 PM

Post #10 of 13 (1070 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

The Throttle Position sensor and Pedal Position sensor are 2 different things. There are 2 TPS sensors and they are inside the throttle body so you are likely looking at a bad Throttle body or the related wiring.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 31, 2017, 6:39 PM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Jun 1, 2017, 5:58 AM

Post #11 of 13 (1049 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Wouldn't worry about fuel trim readings or any other readings on your friend's scan tool other than APP1, APP2, TP1, TP2, desired, and actual throttle positions.

If the throttle doesn't move you will not see any changes in your TPS voltages. Highly doubt it is an APP issue because you would have a different code.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 1, 2017, 5:58 AM)


Joe J
Novice

Jun 8, 2017, 11:19 AM

Post #12 of 13 (1007 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

I ended up just taking it to my mechanic when he got back from vacation and it was luckily just a corroded wire someplace.

Thank you all for your help!


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jun 8, 2017, 12:08 PM

Post #13 of 13 (1002 views)
  post locked   Re: Reduced Engine Power - Saturn Vue 2006 Stumped  

Glad it's fixed and will close as solved,


T







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