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Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Brady Jenn
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May 5, 2015, 5:55 PM
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Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Hello!
I have a:
1994 dodge ram van b350 5.9L
150k miles
The vehicle has run like a top ever since i bought it, till now.
From the beginning....for a couple weeks i noticed the engine turning over for longer and longer before starting after being shut off for a while. Usually fires up instantly. Then i was stuck in traffic one day at the end of a 2 hour drive and the van seemed to hesitate when i tried accelerating. Pulled off highway and it promptly died. Would turn over but not start back up. 10 mins later started up and took me home just fine. Took it on numerous short trips to the store no problems but Replaced the ECC, as was advised by a friend, before risking a long trip. After installing new ECC i took it about 20 mins down the highway, ran great. Reached destination, turned off engine let sit about an hour. Started up to go home and drove about 10 blocks before dying at a redlight.
Gets weird from here...
The van would turn over and over but not start. Then all of a sudden it would not turn over at all making no solenoid sound or anything every time i tried....30 mins later the car turns over and starts just fine. I drive home.
Since getting the van home i have changed the spark plugs. Now the engine will start right up after sitting for a while, it will idle fine and rev fine for a few minutes then make weird noises and die. Will turn over and start then promptly die again only to no longer start at all until is left sitting for a while.
Anyone have any thoughts?
I have tested the TPS and it is only reading .01 to .04 volts. Its grounding tested fine. Seems like i need a new TPS but these symptons seem like something more than that....
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 5, 2015, 8:58 PM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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First clean up the battery cable connections at both ends of each. There's no reason to bother with TPS or other things if you can't get the solenoid to click for just the starter!
Check fuel pressure and leak down, should hold pressure with key on engine off for some time,
T
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 4:31 AM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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What is an ECC?
Check engine light on? Before you disconnect the battery check for trouble codes. Key on-off-on-off-on. The check engine light will flash any trouble codes stored. They are two digit codes.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 7:15 AM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Electronic Computer Command?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Brady Jenn
Novice
May 6, 2015, 8:12 AM
Post #5 of 15
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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The ECC is the electronic control computer. Was advised to try replacing that first because they were always a week link in the older dodges.
I dont have any error codes or anything like that cuz its a 1994. Wasnt till 1996 that dodge implemented a digital diagnostic system.
Im going to check the fuel pressure and leak down this afternoon. Battery connections are fine and has not gone dead once. Thats why it was weird that 2nd time the car quit on me, there was 20 min period where nothing would happen when i tried to turn the engine over. Only to fire up like normal 10 mins later.
Thanks for the responses!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 8:16 AM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Does this have a working "Check Engine Light" = CEL? Put key to run but not running and bulbs should light as a bulb test.
Then follow instructions Discretesignals gave you a few posts back for blinks. Converts blinks to #s and those are the codes - yes even before OBDII of the '96 model and up.
It should at least give a code that it's communicating - if not go from there,
T
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Brady Jenn
Novice
May 6, 2015, 8:37 AM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Ok yes there is a check engine light on. Key on off on off on did not make it blink however.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 9:00 AM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Long but try this if it pastes........
Easy step by step guide on how to gather and define Chrysler OBD1 trouble codes, this information is for vehicles made before 1996.
Difficulty Level - 1
Step 1 - To start gathering trouble codes turn the ignition key on off in rapid succession five times with the cycle ending in the "ON" position.
Step 2 - Once this activation has started the check engine light will start to flash, the first set of check engine light flashes will be the first digit of the two digit code.
Step 3 - After the check engine light pauses for a short time it will start to blink again starting the second digit identification and completing the code's second number. If additional trouble codes are stored in the computer the first digit will begin to flash, and then the second digit. For example: check engine light flashes four times, pauses and then flashes three more times, the code is 43.
Step 4 - The check engine light will flash five and then five (55) meaning the code gathering is over. The system will flash 12 if there are no codes stored in the computer's memory.
Step 5 - To clear codes disconnect the negative battery terminal for 30 seconds and reconnect.
Domestic Code Definitions
11 - Camshaft signal or ignition signal, no reference signal during cranking.
12 - Memory to controller has been cleared within 50-100 engine starts.
13 - Map sensor not detecting any change during test.
14 - Map voltage too high or too low.
15 - Vehicle speed sensor, no signal detected.
16 - Knock sensor circuit. open or short detected.
17 - Low engine temperature, possible thermostat fault.
21 - Oxygen sensor signal, neither rich or lean detected.
22 - Coolant sensor voltage low.
23 - Air charge voltage high/low detected.
24 - Throttle position sensor voltage high/low.
25 - Automatic idle speed motor driver circuit, short or open detected.
26 - Injectors 1,2,3 peak current not reached.
27 - Injector control circuit does not respond to control signal.
31 - Purge solenoid circuit, open or short detected.
32 - EGR solenoid circuit, open or short detected.
33 - A/C clutch relay circuit, open or short detected.
34 - Speed control servo solenoid, open or short detected.
35 - Radiator fan control relay circuit, open or short detected.
36 - Waste-gate solenoid, open or short detected.
37 - Part throttle unlock(PTU) circuit, open or short detected.
41 - Charging system circuit not responding to control signal.
42 - Fuel pump or auto shutdown (ASD) relay voltage sensed at controller.
43 - Ignition control circuit not responding.
44 - Battery temperature voltage circuit problem.
45 - Turbo boost limit exceeded-map sensor detects over-boost.
46 - Battery voltage too high.
47 - Battery voltage too low.
51 - Air/fuel at limit.
52 - Logic module fault.
53 - Internal controller failure.
54 - Camshaft reference circuit not detected.
55 - End of message.
61 - BARO read solenoid, open or short detected.
62 - EMR mileage not stored.
63 - Eprom write denied.
64 - Flex fuel sensor signal out of range.
65 - Manifold tuning valve, open or short detected.
66 - No ccd messages.
76 - Ballast bypass relay, open or short detected.
77 - Speed control relay, open or short detected.
Import Code Definition
1 - Oxygen sensor.
2 - Crank engine sensor.
3 - Air flow sensor.
4 - Barometric pressure sensor.
5 - Throttle position sensor.
6 - Motor position sensor.
7 - Engine coolant temperature sensor.
8 - No.1 cylinder tdc sensor.
12 - Air flow sensor.
13 - Air temperature sensor.
15 - SC motor position sensor.
21 - Engine coolant temperature sensor.
22 - Crank angle sensor.
24 - Vehicle speed sensor.
25 - Barometric pressure sensor.
31 - Knock sensor.
32 - Manifold pressure sensor.
36 - Ignition timing adjustment signal.
39 - Oxygen sensor.
41 - Injector circuit
42 - Fuel pump.
43 - EGR failure.
44 - Ignition coil circuit failure.
52 - Ignition coil circuit failure.
53 - Ignition coil circuit failure.
55 - IAC valve position sensor.
59 - Heated oxygen sensor.
61 - Transaxle control unit cable.
62 - Warm up control valve position sensor
Helpful Information
Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth automobiles have a diagnostic trouble code retrieval method, unlike Gm and Ford which have a data port connector to gather codes.
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Brady Jenn
Novice
May 6, 2015, 9:19 AM
Post #9 of 15
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Ok awesome! Had no idea this was a thing. Wasnt on/offing the key enough times. I got the engine light to blink 12 and 24. The 12 i think is just confirming there was a new ECC installed and the 24 is low TPS voltage which is what i tested for and found out at first, question is what caused my tps to read low voltage? It is getting good ground and reads a change when throttle is applied but is maxing out at .04 volts. Way to low
Thanks all for the good help
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 9:34 AM
Post #10 of 15
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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OK - Just because of age and any voltage reading on any wire check the connections on stuff like this first. I tend to like WD-40 for some first or only, then dielectric grease to follow up. Heat, dirt, age all get involved THEN if you even can know the info is good.
Wiggle test wires and see if your readings change?
Do remember the #s are the circuit noted not telling you what to do about it. TPS you should get a sweep with a multi-meter nice and smooth. Some things you can check like that or dig out exact specs for assorted things,
T
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Brady Jenn
Novice
May 6, 2015, 10:05 AM
Post #11 of 15
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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Ok double checked all conections. Tps still reading .01 to .04 volts. Way low. I already got a new tps (autozone across street from my house). Can i just take out old part plug in new one? Do i have to disconnect the battery or reset computer or anything?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 11:10 AM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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I didn't see anything on that list showing a problem with TPS circuit and can't confirm accuracy of that list either. If you don't wish to test your voltage of TPS (throttle position sensor) by moving throttle and looking at voltage sweep when turning throttle go ahead but no guarantee that has anything to do with it. If cheap enough and you are willing guess I can't stop you.
Generally if you reset codes the real ones will stay there. If you've been unplugging things that will mess up accuracy moreso ont OBDII systems.
There's only so much help you get from codes on OBD1 - know that.
Weak with Mopar. I think repeating and ending with "12" may just mean it's communicating with GM which makes no sense but I forget too just off the top of my head?
T
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Brady Jenn
Novice
May 6, 2015, 11:33 AM
Post #13 of 15
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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I did test the voltage sweep with the throttle on the tps. It registered .01 closed and swept smoothly to .04 wide open. However i should have at least 1 full volt to 5 according to what ive read.
The only thing ive been unplugging is the tps and ECC (when new part was installed)
Understood that that list may not be accurate but the number 24 corresponded to low tps voltage. I just installed the new tps and it still tests low voltage on my multimeter however the check engine light no longer blinks the 24 code. Just 12 now..weird
Car fires right up now but doesnt rev smoothly and pops sometimes...
Thanksagain!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 12:30 PM
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Re: Older Ram Van troubles. Need advice!
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You've run across as much as I have for this vintage Mopar. TPS is sensing throttle position by its name. VSS could be a combo of vehicle speed for shifting, timing, actual vehicle speed for speedometer (doubt it but not sure on that) and would think a failure there would be about shifting more than anything plain running. If wires crossed or touched all bets off.
I'd probably ohm test the TPS without empowering the truck at all. You already know the range it should be and a new one if it does the same you just have to find where it's not getting thru.
Plain plug ins don't like too much unplugging and re-plugging in. Ones with a bail to hold together frequently break allowing corrosion or disconnect. Some pins will fold over and so on. Tons older than this plain wire insulation gives out if you bend it much at all a real pest.
Reminds me of strings of holiday lights for any holiday that claim bulbs last 100,000 hours but the wires last one season!
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on May 6, 2015, 12:32 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 6, 2015, 4:26 PM
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It should range from around .4-.6 at idle up to just short of 5V at full throttle so yes it does sound like you have a bad TPS.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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