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Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed


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Joeboost
Novice

Apr 16, 2013, 7:40 PM

Post #1 of 18 (3826 views)
Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

2002 Mazda Milly S with 52k miles.
ABS/Brake/TCS/TCS Off/ Hold lights on steady.
Speedometer/odometer stopped working at same time lights came on.
Done so far:
replaced VSS sensor.
Checked/cleaned all grounds.
New silicone vacuum lines on all valves/rear bank. Have not done lines on top of motor yet.
Swapped in used ABS/Trans controller (under drivers side dash).

Nothing has helped.

Current codes: P0500, P1720, P1524, P1455

No ABS specific codes. Need to have these checked again since I have done work above.. Don't have abs code reader.

Thanks

Joe


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 17, 2013, 3:16 AM

Post #2 of 18 (3784 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

There are no ABS specific codes because you are reading the PCM and not the ABS module and are probably not even using equipment capable of reading ABS module.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Joeboost
Novice

Apr 17, 2013, 5:07 AM

Post #3 of 18 (3772 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In


In Reply To
There are no ABS specific codes because you are reading the PCM and not the ABS module and are probably not even using equipment capable of reading ABS module.


Appreciate the non-answer. If you read my post again you will see that I stated that I need to get the ABS codes checked again. I did have them checked at a dealer who I assume had appropriate equipment and who told me there were no codes.

If your going to spend the time to respond at least make it useful.


(This post was edited by Joeboost on Apr 17, 2013, 5:08 AM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Apr 17, 2013, 5:08 AM

Post #4 of 18 (3769 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

P0500 VSS circuit malfuction
P1455 Fuel level sensor circuit
P1720 VSS circuit malfunction
P1524 Charge air cooler bypass solenoid circuit malfunction

Those are all circuit codes and they may have something in common.

What kind of test equipment do you have? You have any wiring schematics or service information?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 17, 2013, 5:09 AM)


Joeboost
Novice

Apr 17, 2013, 5:13 AM

Post #5 of 18 (3766 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

In my OP I spelled out what I have done so far.

I am not a tech. I do IT for a living. Working on this in my driveway. I am fairly mechanical and have no problem tearing into this.

I have tools, multimeter, code reader, vacuum tester. Vacuum schematics, no FSM or wiring schematics. Been searching the interwebs for those....

Thanks!!


(This post was edited by Joeboost on Apr 17, 2013, 5:16 AM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 17, 2013, 6:26 AM

Post #6 of 18 (3757 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

You have ABS light on but no ABS codes found. Something is wrong with that picture.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 17, 2013, 7:04 AM

Post #7 of 18 (3746 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

I wouldn't worry too much about the ABS light being on right now. I would troubleshoot the codes you already have.

The P0500 code is the one you should start with. It may lead you to a commonality between the codes you have and the ABS system.

The VSS signal is shared between the PCM, instrument cluster, and the ABS controller. The loss of the VSS signal could be one reason the ABS light is illuminated.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 17, 2013, 7:12 AM

Post #8 of 18 (3739 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In


Quote
The loss of the VSS signal could be one reason the ABS light is illuminated.


Which the ABS code would have confirmed.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Joeboost
Novice

Apr 17, 2013, 7:14 AM

Post #9 of 18 (3736 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In


In Reply To
You have ABS light on but no ABS codes found. Something is wrong with that picture.


I have lots of lights on


(This post was edited by Joeboost on Apr 17, 2013, 7:15 AM)


Joeboost
Novice

Apr 17, 2013, 7:24 AM

Post #10 of 18 (3729 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In


In Reply To
I wouldn't worry too much about the ABS light being on right now. I would troubleshoot the codes you already have.

The P0500 code is the one you should start with. It may lead you to a commonality between the codes you have and the ABS system.

The VSS signal is shared between the PCM, instrument cluster, and the ABS controller. The loss of the VSS signal could be one reason the ABS light is illuminated.


I replaced the VSS with a new unit. Chased all associated wiring and found nothing obvious (chafes/breaks/bad connections). Maybe I got a bad VSS? Im not sure how to test it - it ohmed the same as the original I pulled.

I believe the older models had both a VSS (magnetic pickup) and output speed sensor (plastic gear based) but it seems to have been deprecated on this model. I see on the trans where the output sensor would be but there are no electrical connections to it and nothing obviously unplugged.

I could try swapping in another PCM but this is going to get expensive.

Could this be something in the trans?


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 17, 2013, 6:14 PM

Post #11 of 18 (3703 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

You going to need a high end scan tool for this one. The service information I have is pretty sparse on what gets what and what is sent to what.

It seems the vehicle speed information originates from the ABS controller via wheel speed sensor information and sent out to instrument cluster. The cluster turns around and sends the VSS information to the PCM as a 5 volt square wave signal. The signal from the ABS mod to the instrument cluster appears to be a digital signal also.

The TCM gets the output speed sensor information for transmission operation. The TCM doesn't appear to be involved with speedo operation.

Either way your going to need a high end scan tool to access the ABS module to look at the data stream and record any codes stored. You may need a labscope or graphing DVOM to test the signals from the ABS module to the instrument cluster.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 17, 2013, 6:27 PM)


Joeboost
Novice

Apr 18, 2013, 7:49 AM

Post #12 of 18 (3682 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

Frown

At this point it sounds easier to start swapping components. Luckily a local salvage yard has one of these mostly intact and they are reasonable. Taking it to a dealer will probably cost more for diagnosis than the parts.

Given what you describe, I will check all ABS sensors again and probably swap the ABS pump/module next.

My thoughts are if the dash shorted it would take out more than just speedo/odo and everything else is working at the moment.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 18, 2013, 7:54 AM

Post #13 of 18 (3678 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

Why would you have to take it to the dealer? There are independent shops that could tackle that problem.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Joeboost
Novice

Apr 18, 2013, 8:10 AM

Post #14 of 18 (3672 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In


In Reply To
Why would you have to take it to the dealer? There are independent shops that could tackle that problem.


I have tried - no one wants to touch these cars. I have feelers out on local Mazda forums to see if there is a shop or shadetree Mazda tech that is comfortable working on it.

If you know of anyone on the Tampa/Clearwater/St.Pete FL area let me know Smile


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 18, 2013, 12:33 PM

Post #15 of 18 (3665 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

There has to be something about your particular car that they don't want to deal with because there is nothing to prevent any shop from wanting to work on it. It's just a Mazda unless this one has been hacked up.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Joeboost
Novice

Apr 18, 2013, 2:04 PM

Post #16 of 18 (3654 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

Car is in great shape outside of this issue and the typical response is that these are a PITA to work on so expect to pay thousands of dollars and we cant promise you we can even fix it. Fix one thing something else breaks, etc..

I understand where they are coming from as these cars are well known to be finicky.

Anyway its beyond what I have for diagnostic tools so I will have to keep looking for a good shop that is a bit more confident with these cars.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 19, 2013, 5:39 AM

Post #17 of 18 (3638 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

1962 Ford Falcon. If you can't fix it with pleirs you are toast,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



T
Owned a few. Rollover accidenrts and they still drove home!



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Apr 19, 2013, 5:45 AM)


Joeboost
Novice

Apr 21, 2013, 11:58 AM

Post #18 of 18 (3601 views)
Re: Mazda Millenia S 2.3 Expert Needed Sign In

Fixed. It turned out to be the ABS controller. I was able to swap it without pulling the pump so it saved me a lot of work not having to bleed the entire system.

Now on to the 1524...I have replaced all of the hoses on the rear bank of solenoids and am moving on to the top of the motor. Need to do valve cover gaskets and plugs so a crapload of work still in front of me. Fun times.

Thanks everyone for your input!






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