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Issue Resolved : What Gauge Should I Use?
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pede69
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Dec 8, 2012, 4:52 PM
Post #26 of 66
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Re: What Gauge Should I Use?
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I don't think it is talking about DTC's. Any code READER will pull those. I believe they are talking about PID's.
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pede69
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Dec 8, 2012, 4:56 PM
Post #27 of 66
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Re: What Gauge Should I Use?
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Overview The GM enhanced diagnostics add-on provides access to proprietary systems on GM vehicles. The following makes (model years 1996-2011) are supported: Buick Cadillac Chevrolet GMC Pontiac Saturn The GM Enhanced Diagnostics Module gives you additional diagnostic support for: Engine Transmission Fuel Pump ABS Airbag Hybrid Battery Hybrid Powertrain It adds thousands of new parameters and sensors for both gasoline and diesel vehicles. For a complete list of all available parameters, see the GM Enhanced Parameter List. All this stuff is probably already on the high end systems. J
(This post was edited by pede69 on Dec 8, 2012, 5:00 PM)
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pede69
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Dec 8, 2012, 5:07 PM
Post #28 of 66
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Re: What Gauge Should I Use?
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Wow... there is allot of additional data available in the ad ons. Here is the feature set from the folks that wrote the software. link deleted .......... not allowed
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 8, 2012, 5:35 PM)
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pede69
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Dec 8, 2012, 5:20 PM
Post #29 of 66
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Here is a screen shot from within the software. Are these not waveforms? Or am I mistaken? link deleted J
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 8, 2012, 5:37 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Dec 8, 2012, 5:37 PM
Post #30 of 66
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No, they are not electrical wave forms. The are pids graphed out Stop posting links ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Sidom
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Dec 8, 2012, 6:14 PM
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This is a common mistake since the 2 look very similar but are completely different. A waveform is a pattern that a coil, motor, sensor, pulse generator, etc makes and they go to the pcm. The pcm uses this info to make its adjustments. The only way to see the waveform these units make is to have a scope, backprobe the signal wire, hook the scope up to that backprobed wire and look at the waveforem. As you already know better scanners will let you see a datastream. Some have more PIDs than others, these are just single lines of info. They are usually displayed in number or yes/no form. Graphing is just that. It just takes all those numbers and puts them in a graph, as they are happening, they tried a pie chart but that didn't work. In some cases when you are looking at a datastream it's easier to look at a graph rather than changing numbers, in other cases, it easier to just look at the number.... A graph, the info is coming from the pcm, tcm, bcm, etc A waveform is coming directly from the coil, sensor, motor, etc
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Discretesignals
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Dec 8, 2012, 6:26 PM
Post #32 of 66
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Wow, this is getting deep. Really all you need to monitor is the pre cat o2 sensor voltage and compare it to the post cat O2 sensor voltage. The graphical representation of those signals can give you an idea of what is going on with the catalyst. Another good way is to use a gas analyzer. O wait, the Captain just called, needs me aboard Enterprise...two to beam up... Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Sidom
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Dec 8, 2012, 7:07 PM
Post #33 of 66
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LMAO..........I hear ya DS... I think the OP is intrigued by all the data available so he gonna go for it bad cat or not....
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Hammer Time
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Dec 8, 2012, 7:09 PM
Post #34 of 66
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He really thinks he's going to get 2000 PIDs out of one car. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Dec 8, 2012, 7:24 PM
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Plugging into something and getting information that I have no idea what it means is really exciting.......or frustrating... especially 2000 PIDs of it. Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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pede69
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Dec 9, 2012, 10:24 AM
Post #36 of 66
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OK guys... Enough poking fun :) I do not expect to get 2000 PID's, I expect to get exactly what the PCM, ECM or whatever allows me to see as long as the software I am working with supports it. So can you guys recommend a small hand held lab scope or scanner, maybe something like the Verus that could be low in price and still have a fair feature set? Probably used is all I could afford. I really do have a burning desire to learn the correct way to diagnose engines :) Thanks, John
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Discretesignals
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Dec 9, 2012, 10:41 AM
Post #37 of 66
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You might want to start off with the basics instead of jumping into the more advanced diagnostic equipment. There is a lot more to diagnosing a problem that just having an expensive scan tool. You also have to know what your working on, so that means you have to understand the design of the systems and how these systems interact with each other. It takes years of expirience and learning to become proficient. You should focus on understanding that first. Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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pede69
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Dec 9, 2012, 10:46 AM
Post #38 of 66
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Thanks Discretesignals... I'm actually working on that now at various places online. But in the mean time I have to keep my own stuff going, like the issue with my 1999 3.3L GC Flex Fuel engine that I am having right now. Thanks again... J
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Discretesignals
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Dec 9, 2012, 11:03 AM
Post #39 of 66
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Ok. click the link below and see if you can interpret the scan tool data. This is the type of stuff you will run into out in the field. The questions here aren't advanced questions on scan tool data interpretation either. As you can see even though you have the data in your hand, you have to understand and interpret what it means. http://www.autoshop101.com/tests/intest14.html Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Sidom
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Dec 9, 2012, 11:05 AM
Post #40 of 66
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I wouldn't classify the Verus as a low in price with fair features. This is Snap On's top of the line unit right now. If you are studying the about the systems online and using a scope a great starter would would be Snap Ons vantage (not the pro). It was Snap On's 1st hand held scope and while it's not really an actually scope, more of a GMM (graphing multimeter) but it sets up like a scope and the waveforms are similar to a scope. If you have the money then get a Vantage Pro. This is a true DSO (digital storage oscilloscope) will all the features of the Modis or Verus's scope modules. It will be more money than the original Vantage but well worth it...... Like DS already said, if you don't understand the systems, how they work or what you are looking at then a scope would be worthless... There is a saying that is so true.......You won't know what bad looks like until you know what good looks like...
(This post was edited by Sidom on Dec 9, 2012, 11:12 AM)
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pede69
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Dec 9, 2012, 11:36 AM
Post #41 of 66
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Working on test... At work right now. BB soon. J
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Hammer Time
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Dec 9, 2012, 11:45 AM
Post #42 of 66
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That test page is pretty cool. I didn't get them all on the first try. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Dec 9, 2012, 11:49 AM
Post #43 of 66
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Here ya go. Nice website actually. http://www.autoshop101.com/autoshop9.html Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Sidom
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Dec 9, 2012, 12:06 PM
Post #44 of 66
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I could lie & said I aced it but I missed a couple as well... But it does bring up a good point that with very limited PID if you know what good looks like you can eliminate some systems as not being the problem and focus on the others ones... Normally you would just test what you thought was wrong but with this test you just make your best choice and it was pretty fair.......Not giving 2 or 3 answer that it could be where you would need more tests to confirm......There was pretty much only 1 right answer
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pede69
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Dec 9, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #45 of 66
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Well... Is it half time yet? I'll give you guys something to poke fun at during half time. hehe... I hate doing this in front of a bunch of pro's but here goes. We'll see if I even get any right :) I will use A, B, C, and D for answer. 1. B - 02 sensor fine on flat side but never rises to it's peak voltage. 2. D - 02 sensor not flattening out meaning that proper air flow is not passing through cat. 3. B - Kinda stuck here... Cyl 5 is off on all readings including MAP so I will have to go with intermittent MAP issue. 4. D - 02 sensor running flat and trim is in the + double digits indicating that the MAP sensor may not be working correctly. 5. Don't know - maybe a vac leak 6. A - Cyl 5 fuel injector bad. 7. D - Guessing :) J
(This post was edited by pede69 on Dec 9, 2012, 12:21 PM)
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Sidom
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Dec 9, 2012, 1:09 PM
Post #46 of 66
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Nothing to laugh at.....Its a good test page designed to test your datastream knowledge. They give a problem and very limited PID data, but just enough to narrow down where the problem is... #1.... The 1st thing you should ask yourself is what could cause a regular miss and that right there almost gives you the answer but knowning a miss will give you incomplete combustion, there will be excessive HCs, CO & O2 from the miss, and the O2 sensor only reads O2, the O2 voltage will be low & the fuel trims excessively positive, which they are. I just buzzed thru the test and didn't read all the answers but I imagine it said something similar to that..... But it's a good page, go thru and read all the explantions....
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Hammer Time
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Dec 9, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #47 of 66
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All you have to do is check one of the answers and it tells you if you are right or wrong and why. Congratulations though, you got them all wrong. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 9, 2012, 1:29 PM)
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pede69
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Dec 9, 2012, 1:31 PM
Post #48 of 66
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Wow... that's awesome. Never even noticed that. That makes it a great learning tool. Thanks for pointing it out to me. John
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Discretesignals
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Dec 9, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #49 of 66
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Thank goodness your not a doctor. You would have probably gave someone a penectomy when the data showed they had acute pharyngitis.... Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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pede69
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Dec 9, 2012, 1:42 PM
Post #50 of 66
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Funny... same thing I was thinking. Need an appointment? hehe... J
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