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Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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Kaiso
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Jul 4, 2011, 9:06 PM
Post #1 of 16
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Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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1991
Buick Park Avenue
Engine size (I don't know, but I don't think it makes a difference in this case)
~180k km
Hi! My name is Eric and I bought a 20 year old Buick Park Avenue about one year ago. The electrical isn't set up perfectly and very little turns off when I turn the car off or open a door. It's resulted in me needing a boost five times.
Recently I thought I had done it again, but it would seem that actually, something else has gone wrong. I will break down what I have tested, step by step.
-Battery was replaced in Feb. 2011
-Sunday night drove home, nothing weird.
-Saturday morning I went to turn the car on and there was no power. Bus to work.
-Saturday after work I picked up my mothers car (small Toyota Echo) to boost mine. I boosted it without anything weird happening, but went to pull out of my parking spot and the car died.
-Pushed it back into my spot and boosted it again, same problem. Did it once more and resulted in the same thing.
-At this point I assumed the alternator was done, but didn't have much time to deal with it until today.
-Borrowed my friends car. A full sized sedan to get to work. After work I boosted my car again, but this time it didn't die. I sat with it idling for 15 minutes then took it for a short drive. Parked to grab something from a store, turned it off and... nothing. No power.
-(avoiding explanation of how) ended up at owner of full sized sedans house with my car. Pulled out my battery and put in my old one (which was in my trunk). Old battery was not dead, but was very unreliable in the winter.
-Almost the same thing happened with my old battery, except that there is power. Interior lights are on, power windows/locks work, but the ignition acts as though the battery is flat dead.
I don't know a lot about cars, and I've made some hypothesis', but I don't know enough to go anywhere with them. I'm hoping this is something relatively obvious, but who knows.
Thanks in advance.
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Double J
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Jul 4, 2011, 10:00 PM
Post #2 of 16
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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Sure seems obvious...
If it starts with a jump ,battery was dead....
Quote:' The electrical isn't set up perfectly and very little turns off when I turn the car off or open a door. It's resulted in me needing a boost five times. "
If things arent turning off after vehicle is shut off,you could put a new battery in every day and it would be dead based on the draw the next morning...
You cant expect to carry around a used battery in your trunk since feb and have it be ready to start the car....
Start by getting the newer battery fully charged and load tested...Autozone can do this for free...it can take up to 8 hours to fully recharge a battery at charge intervals of 30 amps for 30 minutes...
Then you need to address whats not shutting off and draining the battery.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 5, 2011, 3:13 AM
Post #3 of 16
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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There is a procedure for finding a battery draw like that.
You will need a digital ammeter and a jumper wire with clips on the ends to do this.
First rig any door switches so you can have a door open without triggering the interior lights and unplug the hood light. Remove one battery cable and attach the meter in series between the battery cable and battery post. Take the jumper wire and also attach it the same way. Leave the jumper wire on for at least 10 minutes to expire all the automatic timers. Now remove the jumper wire and read the meter. Anything over 50ma is too much draw. The way you locate this is to start removing fuses one at a time until the meter drops to normal level. This will be the circuit with something staying on. Determine what components are part of that circuit and check them individually until the problem is isolated.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Kaiso
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Jul 5, 2011, 4:18 AM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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I should have written this out with more thought. Thanks for the responses, but both of you helped me with something which, for the time being, isn't the problem.
I'll summarize.
Battery not holding charge. Able to run for extended period of time with lights/radio on. Battery is (very likely) not the problem.
My car was able to drive for 30+ minutes with the assistance of a jump. Once turned off, the battery held no charge and was not able to start again. The battery is new as of February and the same scenario occurred with my new battery and old battery (which I had in my trunk). I have no expectation that my old battery would hold a charge, I just figured it would be able to tell me if my new battery was actually dead.
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Hammer Time
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Jul 5, 2011, 7:45 AM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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Maybe you should take some of the advice instead of blowing it off. It sounds like you have a bad battery which may have been ruined by a parasitic draw on the system.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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re-tired
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Jul 5, 2011, 8:29 AM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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The other techs are trying to help you if you would just go by their advise. To verify that something is drawing the batt dead and going dead because it cant hold a charge , do the following test.... Fully charge your newest batt, install in car. start car to verify batt is charged. TURN OFF car . disconnect ground cable .Let car sit overnight with ground off. Next day put ground back on . If batt could not hold a charge it will be dead . IF batt is not dead (starts car) then something is drawing it down . which removing the ground prevented from happening,. lets us know what the result is.
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 5, 2011, 9:03 AM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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IU think his current battery is beyond recharging RT. It needs to be tested and likely replaced.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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re-tired
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Jul 5, 2011, 1:08 PM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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Me thinks your right. Revised step one : Get a new fully charged batt...........
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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Kaiso
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Jul 5, 2011, 4:47 PM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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In regards to "me not taking advice"
RE: "Sure seems obvious...
If it starts with a jump ,battery was dead.... "
--I've tried two batteries with the exact same result. Stated in original post.
RE: "There is a procedure for finding a battery draw like that."
--This isn't the problem I'm posting about. Yes, it's a problem I have which has resulted in me needing five boosts, but it isn't the problem causing my car not to run right now.
RE: "Maybe you should take some of the advice instead of blowing it off. It sounds like you have a bad battery which may have been ruined by a parasitic draw on the system."
--Two batteries have been tested with the same results. Stated in original post.
RE: "Me thinks your right. Revised step one : Get a new fully charged batt..........."
--Do I need to repeat myself a third time?
I wasn't trying to be a dick, but clearly my post was only skimmed, hence why I said "I should have written this out with more thought."
If there is logic to "The battery is dead" after hearing that the battery has been replaced with the same end result, then please enlighten me how.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 5, 2011, 5:10 PM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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I don't deal with "stubborn" well.
I'm only going to say one thing and then you're on your own. .....
If a jump start gets your car going, then you had a battery voltage problem, plain and simple. The only question is why. You either have a junk battery, continuous draw or bad connection at the cable end. There are no other answers.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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zmame
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Jul 5, 2011, 5:14 PM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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Bring the battery in and verify it's ok first.. You can't just assume the battery is ok even if it's new and replacing it with a old battery is not verifying that the new battery is ok.. If you take it in and the battery is ok and fully charged then you have issues els where if it's stone dead you have a charging/draw problem.. We are all volunteer tech's whoe have worked or do work on cars daily.
we can't just give you a diagnoses without going through the necessary toubleshooting steps.
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Kaiso
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Jul 6, 2011, 5:28 PM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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Brought the battery in to be tested. Battery is fine. Alternator is fine. Starter is fine. Car still won't start.
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Hammer Time
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Jul 6, 2011, 5:52 PM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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But if you put jumper cables on it, then it will start?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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zmame
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Jul 6, 2011, 7:08 PM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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If the battery is fully charged and load tested fine
Starter tested fine
Alternator was load tested fine
Then You have a connection problem somewhere check cables for chorrosion, loose connector or damaged wires. Check for voltage drop across your connections.
(This post was edited by zmame on Jul 7, 2011, 4:41 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 7, 2011, 3:25 AM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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We're just getting fed bad info here. He says the car starts with a boost so i don't believe a word of this.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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zmame
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Jul 7, 2011, 4:44 AM
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Re: Battery / Alternator problems. Will not start.
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I know.. but if he just wants an answer to the symptoms he described without actually properly testing all the comonents listed, ill give him a solution.
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