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99 Sentra won't crank over
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duffer72
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Oct 28, 2011, 10:51 AM
Post #1 of 24
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99 Sentra won't crank over
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99 Nissan Sentra, 1.6,auto trans, 140,000 miles, It does not have theft system on it but it seems to be wired for it ( has 2 relays in system for it)
Numbers included below refer to the terminal #'s on the PNP relay
This has been an on and off problem for 6 months now, Full history, car was fine then daughter said she was having to turn the key to start a few times before it would crank over, we tested system and replaced ignition switch, it was fine for 4-6 weeks then it wouldn't start at all, rechecked system, everything ok, power to starter selonoid but selonoid wouldn't activate unless it was tapped with a wrench, replaced starter/selonoid assy. Has been fine for 2-3 months, now once again it will not crank over, tested the following to this point, starter selonoid direct to battery and engine turns over fine, tested ignition switch, am getting power out to starter circuit wire, tested starter system relay ok and tryed a different one I had laying around, tested both relays for anti theft system ok, also checked power coming into them ok, checked from the starter system relay terminal for inhibiter/ nuetral safety switch #2 to ground and the switch is working ok, I have power to the relay on the imcoming side of the relay for the nuet safety switch #1, I have no power coming in for the power side of the relay for the starter circuit # 6,I checked that line back to ignition switch plug and there is not continuity in the wire.. I don't see anywhere on the wiring diagragm where there are any fusible links for the starter circuit, are there any? Any ideas what to look for? there where no blown fuses and I checked the line to ground for a short and it was ok. Also hooked up code reader to it and only got a code for the EGR. anybody have a real wiring diagram for this car, can only find one on the net and it is pretty much the same thing that is in the Haynes manual I have.
(This post was edited by duffer72 on Oct 28, 2011, 12:52 PM)
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Sidom
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Oct 28, 2011, 1:52 PM
Post #2 of 24
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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I just took a quick look at your system but If you aren't getting any power to the #6 term of the PNP relay from the switch then that is the wire you need to trace down.....I didn't see any links or connections, so double check it again and if there is in fact no power when the key is turned to start, then that is a problem. Obviously you would want to confirm power coming out of the switch.....
It does look like this system has an anti-theft system on it but if there was a problem it should've set a code.....This is a diagram for an XE model,,,,had to guess..... The #7 term off the PNP relay, (B/Y wire) is the one going to the starter but if that one had power when the key was turned then we wouldn't have this thread.....
Just a quick note.....I'm assuming you have already checked all the fuses for the system
(This post was edited by Sidom on Oct 28, 2011, 1:59 PM)
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duffer72
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Oct 28, 2011, 2:22 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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I do have power going to # 1 on PNP so the anti theft isn't killing it, just couldn't see any fusible links for ignition as far as the cover diagrams are concerned, I have checked all fuses for the starting sys/ engine controls and any thing else that may cause it.
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Sidom
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Oct 28, 2011, 2:45 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Ok just so we're on the same page.... For sure there isn't 12v to the #6 term (b/w) wire of the PNP relay when the key is turned to the start position? If that is the case, that is where you go 1st, you either have a bad switch or an open in the circuit somewhere. With the KOEO you should be able to jump that term with 12v to #6 & if everything else in the system is ok, the start would crank until the power is removed....
Not to get ahead of yourself but even though #1 term is getting power, if the #7 term from the neutral safety switch isn't grounding the circuit then the relay wouldn't work & the starter wouldn't crank but you need to trace the other power problem down 1st.
If you have a long enough jumper wire you could jump from the back of the ign sw the the #6 term of the relay. If the starter cranks this would confirm a good switch & bad circuit.....
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duffer72
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Oct 28, 2011, 3:33 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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I checked # 7 and it is showing continuity to ground, I ran a jumper from #6 to ignition switch terminal with a meter in middle and it shows no continuity so I am assuming it is a dirty connecter or bad wire between them.
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Sidom
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Oct 28, 2011, 5:28 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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With that setup there would be no continuity until you turned the key to the start position.
With your meter is there 12v at the back of the switch when the key is turned?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 28, 2011, 6:52 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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This have cruise control?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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duffer72
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Oct 29, 2011, 5:37 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Yes there is power off the ignition switch when the key is in the start position
Yes the car does have cruise control.
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Sidom
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Oct 29, 2011, 8:54 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Ok, if you've got 12v, if you can run a jumper between the switch & #6 of the relay & see if it cranks, if it does then you have an open circuit in that wire you need to trace down..... If you have a fused jumper you can apply 12v to that terminal to see if will make it crank.....
Now I'm also assuming that the battery has been load tested the terminals cleaned??
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duffer72
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Oct 29, 2011, 9:04 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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yep have checked all that first thing, battery voltage only drops .02 when key is hit to start as nothing is kicking on. still shows 12.7v
Can I just jump from battery to terminal, it's alot closer and my heavy jumper wire will only reach about that far, I have already tested the switch and have power coming off b/w wire when I turn it to start.
the car isn't here it's sitting in a parking lot 20 miles away, kind of waiting for the other guy to reply as he asked if it had cruise control so maybe he has run into something similar with it, I read on another forum with similar problems and it was the anti theft on the key fob that was messed up and causing the problem. besides it is windy and cold out there today and my daughter is using the wifes car. I appreciate your help.
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Sidom
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Oct 29, 2011, 9:20 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Well if your going on a road trip then its definitely best to have as many plans as possible... The diagram I posted has cruise, that's terms # 3 & 4 due to having to guess on the model, this was an XE. That's the good thing about this forum, if someone has a different take or idea, they will usually chime in...
While the battery does seem good with what you did, it's really best to load check it & clean the terminals while its out, I know it seems like a PITA but I've wasted a lot of time before chasing down ghosts because the battery had good surface voltage & later turned out to be the problem. Your call but personally I would pull it & have it load tested....
You can run 12v from that bat to that terminal but it would be a real good idea to have a fused jumper, a power probe would be ideal but most people don't have one of those at home. You can make one real easy with some wire & put an inline fuse holder in....
Also when jumping any circuit, especially a starter circuit, always use due care & caution
(This post was edited by Sidom on Oct 29, 2011, 9:26 AM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 29, 2011, 9:35 AM
Post #12 of 24
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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I was just wondering because the starting circuit with a Sentra without cruise is different. Sid is doing a wonderful job and knows his stuff. You'll have it figured out in no time.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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duffer72
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Oct 29, 2011, 9:38 AM
Post #13 of 24
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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I understand what you are saying, I would think the battery is ok as when I jump it to the selonoid directly it cranks the engine over normal speed, unless the rest of the system puts a bigger load on it than I think it does. Somebody where my daughter works also tried to jump start it when it wouldn't start. As I am a ford person I know at least the older ones wouldn't kick the selonoid in with less than 11.75 volts. I cleaned the terminals again when we put the starter in a few months ago also and they were clean then.
My bigger jumper lead has a spade fuse holder in line so I can change the fuse to match what the system has as far as amperage goes.
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Sidom
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Oct 29, 2011, 10:44 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Yea if you can get the battery to crank the starter by jumping the solenoid, it should be good.
The only other thing that popped into my mind was to double check under the dash for an aftermarket alarm. You've been pretty thorough but I've had a few no cranks due to AM alarms where the people were unaware they had. It's pretty easy to tell, just pull the hush panel (if it has one) & the AM wiring, module & butt connectors would be obvious, just find the factory starter wire that's been cut in 2 & spliced into the system & jump it together, if it cranks, that's your problem.
No alarm and since you've confirmed power from the switch & not at the relay, the next thing I would do would be to jump the relay, if all is good with the anti theft & neutral safety sw, it should crank.....
Hopefully you haven't left yet but well,,,,, I got hung up in a poker game (gawd I really hate bullets)
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duffer72
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Oct 29, 2011, 11:10 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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First of all the model is a GXE if it makes a difference (just checked the insurance papers)
I tried jumping across the terminals 6 & 7 on the relay holder and got nothing but didn't expect to as there is no power going to the lead #6.
Oh well looks like I get to have fun pulling the harness loose and tracking a bad connection down.
Quick question, I tried starting it by going direct to starter selonoid with key in run position (trying to get it home to work on) it would crank and start for a second or 2 and then die, is that because it is too lean when cold to keep it going?
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Sidom
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Oct 29, 2011, 11:20 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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No....that is that anti-theft kicking in.... I was actually just gonna suggest doing that to get it home. Something else is going on here, I'm going to have to reread this thread to see if I missed something...
If you have a spare key for the car, try starting it with the spare key......
Is there a security light flashing??
(This post was edited by Sidom on Oct 29, 2011, 11:20 AM)
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duffer72
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Oct 29, 2011, 11:49 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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OK that makes more sense, we have tried starting it with her key and mine no difference, there is no security light that we have ever seen, but this gives me something else to check if I am getting any juice on leg 2 of the theft relay
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Sidom
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Oct 29, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Its strange that it is starts & dies with the KOEO and there are no theft codes or flashing lights. I would probably double check the terminal numbers you are working with just to be sure you are on the right page. I assume when you were checking #6 you had a helper holding the key in the start position. If there is 12v on #1 then the SECU isn't killing the theft relay due to a security issue.
It seems like if the system had been tampered with & activated you would have a flashing light or at least a code set, this thread is getting long but I seem to remember you said you pulled codes? Try deactivating the system again, use the remote to lock & unlock the doors. use the key to lock & unlock both sides, open the truck with the key...
The thing bothering me is no power on #6, if this is just a theft issue there should be power there when the key is turned or if it's a theft issue there should be a code or light........ What am I missing here??????
The diagram is a bit different for the GXE but only with no CC with CC it's pretty much the same as the one I posted earlier....
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duffer72
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Oct 29, 2011, 1:15 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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this diagram also shows 2 relays for PNP and the car only has 1 that I have seen,
We don't have and never have had a remote for this car just a good old plain ignition key, is it possible that someone with a compatable remote parked near by set the theft system some how? Should I try clearing any codes that are showing?
(This post was edited by duffer72 on Oct 29, 2011, 1:23 PM)
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Sidom
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Oct 29, 2011, 3:09 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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There is 3 different possible options & the diagram shows all 3 (on the same diagram...yea I know, great idea).....The key at the top breaks down the different options.....The 1st diagram posted is basically the same as yours since you do have anti theft & CC.
With out a remote you can arm & disarm the system by using the key to lock & unlock the doors, the trunk & I believe hood is also tied in.... Try arming & disarming with BOTH doors (at serperate tries) & also go unlock the truck & try to start it...but that wouldn't explain no power @ #6.
The way you jumped it earlier wasn't quite correct. with the relay installed, 12v needs to be jumped to the #6 term only (basically what the ign sw does when the key is turned if the system is working properly). But at this point I'm not 100% positive of the loss of power so try disarming it 1st.
As I mentioned earlier, you really need a fused jumper & need to use care.....If you aren't totally sure about this, it might be a better idea to leave it alone & not create more problems.....
(This post was edited by Sidom on Oct 29, 2011, 3:10 PM)
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duffer72
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Oct 30, 2011, 10:17 AM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Success, Got it going, Had to replace the new ignition switch we replaced in july, didn't notice or didn't check before not sure which, but it had 12.7 V going in but only had 10.1 to starter circuit coming out, after we replaced it I was still getting voltage to input side of both Theft relays with the key off and and less than 2 volts to terminal 6 on the inhibitor relay, so I started looking around, I noticed my daughter had taken out what she was told was a add-on flashlight which is mounted to the right and below the steering column, once I put it back in the motor turned over, it took 10-15 seconds to fire and chugged for a few more but then started running good, just drove it home and it started fine when we got here, also after putting in the switch I cleared a few codes from the system that were all emission codes. The "flashlight is a sort of triangle shaped thing with a botton on it that activates a small bulb in it. I have a picture of it but can't figure out how to post it on here.
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Sidom
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Oct 30, 2011, 5:04 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Glad to hear ya got it going.....
I'm not real sure what that is but anything AM that is interrupting a starter circuit I would have to guess is some type of an alarm....
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duffer72
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Oct 30, 2011, 5:51 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Thanks for the help guy!
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duffer72
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Nov 11, 2011, 1:08 PM
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Re: 99 Sentra won't crank over
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Just FYI I had my daughter take the car by a shop that does alarms and they said the pc I was describing is a cheap anti theft device and when removed from the plug it kills the starter system.
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