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98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle


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drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 1:06 PM

Post #1 of 23 (1217 views)
98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

So I've been having a little trouble here. My 98 ex v6 Accord has a jumpy &/or sticky throttle . Keeping my foot at what should be a slow steady acceleration it will loose all acceleration slowly die out rpm's falling to about 300, then jump really fast does this over and over again at all speeds. Solutions I've tried, removed cat converter and straight piped exhaust, cleaned throttle body, tested voltage on TPS (was accurate) Thanks in advance for any tips


(post from another forum linked)



Run together mess from another forum deleted


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Nov 9, 2014, 1:20 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 1:42 PM

Post #2 of 23 (1202 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Hmmm? So you "test" a TPS but tear out a converter for a straight pipe for a test instead of checking backpressure at least! Now put that back and get codes read and post the #s.



drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 2:08 PM

Post #3 of 23 (1191 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

well the converter was obviously bad by the smell, and i don't have emissions in my state. is there no way to bypass that code? maybe just hook it up and test the codes with it hooked up without having to actually re-weld it on.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 2:47 PM

Post #4 of 23 (1179 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

It's not all about emissions the car was totally designed for a converter and is monitoring it's performance AFTER it. If you smell it it's no doubt being trashed by unburned fuel for any reason. Codes are the first step. If you've gone around trying to defeat emission control items you are fooling yourself. It's made to run perfectly with them all working and zero advantage to by-pass them,


T



drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 2:57 PM

Post #5 of 23 (1175 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

doesn't it choke my exhaust therefore causing more build-up. I don't have the money or resources to re-attach it, much less buy a new one.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 3:13 PM

Post #6 of 23 (1172 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Converters will clog when over taxed by raw fuel too much usually then the excessive backpressure will cause it to lose power as an exhaust restriction as any exhaust restriction could.


Oh my - whatever you did to by pass it and now can't put it back just adds to the troubles. No money doesn't help either and so far you are making that worse.


From erratic throttle to this?? Now just check that everything is hooked up that should be for engine and any obvious vacuum leaks and go get codes. You are going to have codes at least for the missing converter but others may still be there and help find the source of the problem. Converter failures except for rusted out are the RESULT of a problem that was ignored too long,


T



drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 3:37 PM

Post #7 of 23 (1168 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Thanks for your help, i've been recommended to do a voltage drop test, which is the only one i have the meter for. (because a lot of times cables can look to be connected but not actually are)

also been recommended to TEE into a vacuum hose that has manifold vacuum on it so I could watch the manifold vacuum as you increase the engine speed at different rates..but i have no gauge

Also, do you know a good scan tool that can record data stream values?
or what one would be called if i can get a gear head buddy to loan me one. I'm not the most mechanically inclined if you can't tell by now.


drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 3:40 PM

Post #8 of 23 (1167 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

CODES BEING THROWN AS OF NOW.

p1041
definition: heated oxy sensor (bank1 sensor 2) heater circuit malfunction
Possible causes:h02s, or failed PCM
Possible solutions: replace 02sensor,or replace ECM

p0170
definition:Fuel Trim Bank 1
Causes:n/a
Possible soultions: replace sensors with p0131,p0171
Install/Replace Fuel pressure regulator AND hose kit


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 4:50 PM

Post #9 of 23 (1161 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In


Quote
well the converter was obviously bad by the smell,


No, that wouldn't indicate a bad converter at all. It would indicate there is an issue with the fuel being burned in your engine.

Even if you don't have emissions testing in your state, you are still subject to up to a $25,000 fine for doing that and you didn't benefit a bit by doing it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 5:11 PM

Post #10 of 23 (1159 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Well, the P0170 would be the code to focus on. The code basically means the fuel trim was out of limits. It is a generic code and will usually either be accompanied by either a P0171 or P0172. The code doesn't tell you if the there is a rich or lean issue, it just tells you there is a problem with the computer controlling fuel trim.

The possible causes in your list are possible, but I wouldn't go replacing anything without troubleshooting. Do a really good inspection of the engine and look and make sure all hoses are connected everything is in its place such as wiring harnesses. If everything looks good visually, your going to have to hook it up to a high end scan tool and monitor data stream information. I got a feeling this may be out of your pay grade and your going to have to bring it to a repair shop that specializes in drive-ability problems on Asian vehicles.





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drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 6:33 PM

Post #11 of 23 (1154 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

it smelled like i was running rich a lot, but a smell of rotten eggs came and went and was extremely strong. i was told by 2 different mechanics that was my cat going out :(


drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 6:35 PM

Post #12 of 23 (1152 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

that's what im afraid of. im already in the hole to my pops 800$ for helping me replace the front end when my ball joint broke. and i c ant afford a 7$ bottle of gumout much less a trip to a shop. I know a good shop but cant afford it thats why ive been using my mechanic buds


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 6:36 PM

Post #13 of 23 (1151 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Then those are 2 mechanics you shouldn't be listening to any more. The smell simply means the fuel mixture is not correct.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 6:46 PM

Post #14 of 23 (1147 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

good to know, although cutting the cat did seem to give me a slight improvement in mileage which has been beyond TERRIBLE since this issue started.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 6:50 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1144 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

This pretty much sums it up and the last mechanics you had it at didn't know this.


Quote
The rotten egg smell means that the catalytic converter is working properly. "It's (the smell) hydrogen sulfide or H2S. It does not exist in the fuel or oil, which is why you can't smell it at the gas station. It does, however, come from the gasoline. Almost all gasoline contains organic sulfur compounds with sulfur levels ranging from 30 to 100 parts per million, approximately. "As the fuel burns, the organic sulfur compounds break down into simpler compounds. If the engine is running lean (more air than is needed to burn the fuel), the sulfur is likely to be SO2, or sulfur dioxide. The catalytic converter can change this into SO3 (sulfur trioxide), which then reacts with the catalyst to form sulfates on the catalyst. Over several minutes there is a build up of sulfates. If the engine suddenly starts to run rich (not enough air to burn all the fuel), such as when you stop at a red light, climb a steep hill, or brake hard to slow down, the chemistry changes. Now the sulfates are unstable and they react to form hydrogen sulfide, which is expelled from the exhaust pipe all at once. The high concentration is the reason for the bad smell! This effect is a common problem with new vehicles because the catalyst is working at a very high efficiency. However, as the catalyst gets older, the activity drops.

Fortunately for us, one of the first reactions to be affected is the formation of hydrogen sulfide. So as the catalyst gets older, the smell will go away. It should also be noted that many catalysts never smell bad. One reason might be because the vehicle doesn't run lean for much of the time, or perhaps the catalyst has an extra component that reduces the production of hydrogen sulfide. "Next time Eggbert and Shelley stop behind a vehicle that smells bad, they can be grateful that it's at least not contributing much to atmospheric pollution."

Thanks to this month's Whizard, Dr. Gordon Bartley, a senior research scientist in the Emissions Research Department of the Automotive Products and Emissions Research Division. Bartley specializes in the development, aging, and evaluation of vehicle emission catalysts.






Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


drcurtis901
Novice

Nov 9, 2014, 6:53 PM

Post #16 of 23 (1141 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Well its official I'm a dumbass for listening to them. and I have no way of putting it back on....question though. Why would it just start smelling if it happens most when they're brand new?


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 7:06 PM

Post #17 of 23 (1137 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Your not a dumbass. A lot of people think that if exhaust smells like farts the cat is bad. I remember reading factoryTSBs (technical service bulletins) on engine control module software upgrades for smelly cats. They changed the way the fuel trim was controlled by the software to lessen or get rid of the eggs in the exhaust. I don't remember reading anything in those TSBs to replace the cats for the smell.

When I started carbs were going away and I know they ran into farty smelling cats more often on carbed engines. Maybe due to more sulfur in the gas or computers had less control over making sure the engine got the correct air to fuel ratio to make sure the cat's exhaust gas intake was stoichmetric. Who knows...

A brand new cat is going to be a whole lot more efficient than an older one, so a build up of sulfur trioxide is going to happen a lot faster and easier. Larger changes are not going to be needed in the fuel/air mixture to create hydrogen sulfide.

Now when the cat ages and its efficiency drops, the small changes in air/fuel mixture aren't going to create hydrogen sulfide as much unless you have an air fuel mixture problem caused by some type of drive-ability issue.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 9, 2014, 7:44 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 9, 2014, 8:16 PM

Post #18 of 23 (1119 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Post # 12 on this - Quote">>
that's what im afraid of. im already in the hole to my pops 800$ for helping me replace the front end when my ball joint broke. and i c ant afford a 7$ bottle of gumout much less a trip to a shop. I know a good shop but cant afford it thats why ive been using my mechanic buds<<"


For the time being this is a hurdle to overcome before making things any worse than they are. Hope you saved the old converter and stop ACTING on just any advice till you are a bit more informed and have better ways to test available. You were close with a "T"d in vacuum reading for exhaust back pressure but if no gauge, not able to hold a speed or where to hook even that up you aren't ready.


It's a rock and a hard place without the means ($$) to check and fix the car in general.


It's time to pick a plan of attack to own a car at all if $7 for "gummout" and now in the "hole" for a prior repair it's probably best to just park this car for a while until you can get access to the $$. tools and know how for working on it at all and plain routine maintenance kept up or this "hole" is just getting bigger,


T



Sierra
New User

Nov 10, 2014, 4:32 AM

Post #19 of 23 (1108 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Hi, you can remove MAP, Oxygen cylinders & throttle position sensors , clean them gently & put them back to get it function properly again.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Nov 10, 2014, 6:19 AM

Post #20 of 23 (1102 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Sierra, stop with the nonsense. You don't clean an 0/2, a TPS or a MAP sensor.

Please leave the advice to the professionals.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 10, 2014, 7:54 AM

Post #21 of 23 (1100 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

C'mon HT - Don't you remember the ads for the soap the can clean anything? Cheaper than Gummout too,

T


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Nov 10, 2014, 1:46 PM

Post #22 of 23 (1087 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

Yeah, advice like that will have him destroying all his sensors.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 10, 2014, 2:49 PM

Post #23 of 23 (1081 views)
Re: 98' Honda Accord Jumpy Throttle Sign In

drcurtis901: Back to some reality for now. Where is the old converter and parts or gone now and where? Did you know they are full of expensive metals which is why the are costly and no joke get stolen from shops and cars left in the wrong places just for the stupid money for that metal!


There are no real tricks for primal operation for the drivetrain designs to alter that would really work. Things just need to be right, kept right and cared for and fixed properly.


Back to the rock and hard place is that if you can't afford a thing right now then plan on what to do about that in general. Find out if you can (illegal where I am) get the exhaust even used and good if old stuff is gone for some reason. If just cut that could be put back by a decent so called "Muffler Shop" or other that has the welding equipment and know how.


You will have a check engine light on for the missing O2 sensor or it noticing lack of a converter. Engine new was designed for exhaust to be just so with whatever back pressure (not much) that a converter might impose and now isn't there just complicates the fix for this now. It wouldn't if this was late 1970's model - forget that.


OK - there should be a front O2 sensor on this that does matter a lot. Is that still intact?


What can you do with basically no money or tools is going to be tough of course. Look for the obvious of broken or rubbing parts and anything you can find to did with this throttle at least as that doesn't cost to look.


IDK but seems this is stuck at a stalemate for now,


T







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