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92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway


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mike hammer
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Dec 19, 2009, 11:32 AM

Post #1 of 14 (1890 views)
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92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway Sign In

92 plymouth acclaim died on the high way after towing to my place i found a broken ground strap( from bottom of throttle body to back wall of engine compartment) thought this was the problem but when replaced still no go. I was able to start it with generous shots of quick start but engine dies after 2 seconds . battery is good , it seems like it has ok spark because it starts with quick start. It does however emit a clicking sound from a part which is directly in front of the steering wheel in the engine compartment. This part has some relation to throttle and ignition because it has a cable that attaches at the throttle body . The car has about a 100000 kilometers on it and until this operated perfectly. Could the broken ground strap have caused a overload somewhere. does a car have hidden fuses somewhere other than the interiour fuse panel. I have no fuel pressure gauge but disconnected the to engine side of the fuel line at the filter and it seems to have good pressure. I am embarrased to say i have no idea what is the part that is clicking it is attached to the back of the engine compartment next to the shock tower and has a cable which when i pull by hand opens and closes the air intake flap inside the throttle body . The car is a single point injector 2.5 litre engine. I have no idea wher to check next and am at a complete loss. would appreciate any help as this seems to be outside of my limited mechanic capacity thank for listening.


DanD
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Dec 19, 2009, 2:25 PM

Post #2 of 14 (1879 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

The thing that’s clicking sounds like it might be the cruise control module assembly and likely nothing to do with the problem?
I think the next thing to check is; whether the computer is pulsing the injector and or whether there’s power at the injector.
Does the engine light/power loss light come on for a few seconds when the ignition is first turned to the run position?
The way this sounds we’ll have to do a few electrical checks to find this problem. If you feel you’re capable, have access to a test light, multi-meter and can follow instructions; we’ll try and help?

Dan.

Canadian "EH"






mike hammer
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Dec 20, 2009, 8:42 AM

Post #3 of 14 (1864 views)
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you wher indeed right about the cruise control mudul. I tried starting the car with the the cruise control on and off alternately and the clicking did not stop but indeed changed its sound and i believe this now to be a normal sound i have just not noticed before . I pulled the injector and had an assistant try and start the car while giving the car short burst of gas by means of the accelerator pedal and it indeed seems to be clicking regularly. I am going to try to get my hands on a multimeter and a test light. Atest light i think is simplly a light that lights when current is present isnt it. When i tried to start the car with the injector out the car seems to have delivered what seemed to be a very tiny amount of gas to the intake. it was just enough to slightly dampen the seat in which the injector sits and give a slight odour of gas. It is very cold here and the car had not been driven for a few days when the failure happened. I have installed (safely) a sort of tent around the hood of the car and am currently heating it with current of warm air from a small heater with a fan. I hope to rule out the unlikely possibility of ice somewhwere in the lines. I do not know if it is even possible for a piece of ice to free itself from a relatively inert place in the line and get jammed somewhere further up where it can almost fully block the line i will rule this out today. I have tried to understand some wiring diagrams to check potentially simple things like related fuses and found only one fuse reletad to ignition #11 in the interiour fuse panel. it was ok. I will also go through the fuses inside the car one by one before i dive any deeper. i wonder if the fuses inside which are listed as being in control of things like horn and lights are also in control of other more important functioning like fuel delivery and if so wher might i find a list of these fues and the other things they govern. Thanks for listening, Mike


mike hammer
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Dec 20, 2009, 10:48 AM

Post #4 of 14 (1857 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

and yes when I turn the key the check engine flashes as well as the air bag light


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 20, 2009, 11:02 AM

Post #5 of 14 (1857 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

Having some site problems with notifications so I'll suggest what I would do if you really suspect ice in fuel lines. You said it will at least fire up momentarily with what I call starting fluid or smidgen of gas in throttle body so you may be right. Simple ISOPROPYL dry gas should remove the water if not way too much. Regular methyl with only keep water from freezing.

It won't bore thru the ice if stopped up now until you can warm up the whole car in garage if so. Play with the gas pedal really does nothing on a fuel injected car by the way.

It smacks of a fuel issue but exactly what is going to be tricky. Do you hear the fuel pump when you just position key to run without starting? A fuel pressure reading may show zero if line or filter is really iced. If just low it's getting something thru so lines are open.

If they use ethyl alcohol in the fuel you buy it shouldn't freeze easily,

At the moment I won't even know if you replied unless I stumble on it! DanD may get a notice - can't say for sure. Sorry about that.

Still - see if you can warm the whole car. Water will seek the lowest spot in lines. You need heat under car if ice is the issue and speed it up use a fan. I hope DanD catches this and can offer his ideas??

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


DanD
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Dec 21, 2009, 7:28 AM

Post #6 of 14 (1842 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

Ok just to clarify a few things; you said.

Quote
disconnected the to engine side of the fuel line at the filter and it seems to have good pressure.

When the ignition is first turned on to the run position (without cranking engine) the fuel pump should come on for approx 2-3 seconds and then shut off. This is called the prime cycle; which is to begin building the approx 15psi of fuel required. Then if all else is good; when you begin to crank the engine, the computer sees ignition and turns the pump back on.
With a fuel line disconnected or when you had the injector out of the throttle body and turn the ignition on or cranked the engine; you should have had a good sized gusher of fuel? 15psi isn’t much pressure compared to the newer vehicles but it would still give you a bit of a mess to clean up.
The check engine light?

Quote
yes when I turn the key the check engine flashes

It should only flash on and off once; the same length of time as the prime cycle. During cranking it should be off.
With that being said; if you were to cycle the ignition, on and off three times; with-in 5 seconds, (not cranking the engine) leaving it in the on position at the third cycle. That will put the computer into diagnostics and will begin flashing codes.
Code flashes are counted like this; code 12 and then a for example 32 would look like this. The dash's meaning the light is off.
On - ON ON --- ON - ON ON --- ON - ON ON --- ON ON ON - ON ON --- ON ON ON - ON ON ---ON ON ON - ON ON
Each code will flash three times, before continuing to the next. Once all stored codes have flashed the sequence will begin again, until you turn the ignition off; notice the longer gap between flashes, once it flashes a 2 digit code.
Let us know what you find?

Dan.

Canadian "EH"






mike hammer
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Dec 21, 2009, 9:47 AM

Post #7 of 14 (1835 views)
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sorry dan i mistook some residual pressur that caused a spurt of gas for real fuel pump pressure. After having jumped the appropriate connections (87-30 in the fuel pump relay ) nothing at all from the fuel pump. I checked the same two connections with a test light and nothing not knowing if this circuit would even light a test lamp i checked with a small meter which detects whether current is present and it too registered no ellllectricity passing between number 30 and 87. I checked the codes and it gave me code 27 which is " one of the injector control circuit output drivers does notrespond prorerly to the control signal" in the haynes manual..I will try to understand the wiring diagrams in the manual a little bit so that i may ask better questions from this point on.


DanD
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Dec 21, 2009, 10:24 AM

Post #8 of 14 (1834 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

Sorry for what; it’s hard to keep things strait when we’re both at a keyboard and not under the hood of the car.

Yes a test light should light when testing the fuel pump circuit. Back at the fuel tank you’ll want to test the dark green wire for power; with the test light clipped to a known good ground.
You will only have power on that wire for a couple of seconds; when the ignition is turned to the run position (prime cycle) and then the power should come back when you begin to crank the engine.


Dan.

Canadian "EH"






mike hammer
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Dec 21, 2009, 3:41 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1819 views)
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hello dan i am not sure if i really understand your directions what ian using to check for power is a small 12 volt bulb with two wires one to which i attach or touch to each side of a connection to see if current is present. if current is passing the bulb lights. I thought that was a test light but am now pretty sure it is not really what i need. With this apparatus however i jammed one wire into the connector of the dark blue wire and the other into the receptor of other wire and the bulb did nothing until i linked the 30 to the 87 in the fuel pump relay and then it lit and stayed lit. Strangely though i am still unable to get light when i link the 30 and the 87 relays with the two wires from the bulb. I was unable to test the ignition \prime cycle because i have no assistant right now but will have one shortly. If the light lights does this mean that power is present in both ,wires after disconectig the jump 30 to 87 and reassembling the relay there is no light when i plug the the bulb i had a friend put the key in run position and there is no light either to indicate a prime cycle..


(This post was edited by mike hammer on Dec 21, 2009, 4:58 PM)


DanD
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Dec 21, 2009, 9:04 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1806 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

With me being a bit lazy here; I haven’t looked up what you’re talking about with the 30 & 87 connections, at the fuel pump relay?

A test light regardless of how it is made; if it will light when connected between battery positive and negative; it will work to test continuity between positive and negative, of most circuits.
The light bulb being the load on the circuit compared to or instead of the device that is being powered on that circuit.
Just for example; if your fuel pump is the root problem. With a test light; you would connect one lead to the ground side of the circuit and the other to the power feed. If the test light likes; but the fuel pump didn’t run; then the most likely problem is a bad pump. There are a lot of other things that may allow a test like to light where the device will not run; but most times; it’s the device that has burnt out.

Dan.

Canadian "EH"






mike hammer
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Dec 22, 2009, 4:41 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1794 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

hello dan thanks for the explanation. I just dropped the gas tank and when i looked at the pumps electrical connection i saw what i was unable to see when the tank was still in the car. that is that the recieving end on the fuel pump side does not have a true connection . what i thought wwas a plastic clicking electric connector was in fact just a collar of glue or sillicone holding the male end into what is left of the original female connector on the pump . With the tank out of the car i think i will be able to arrange something more solid. With the tank out and the terminals all cleaned and the male end held in place with some weight on top i am able to get the prime shot of gas when i turn the key. I have duplicated this 5 times without fail. I suspect that the last guy to have the car broke the connector then put some goop on there and held it in place. I have cut the male end of the connector off and will try to solidly install it with the tank out in the open where i have some elbow room and am able to arrange something more reliable. If I am able to repair\fabricate something which will reliably hold the connector and pass a couple of test shots should i reinstall it Or should i get a new fuel pump .


DanD
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Dec 23, 2009, 6:37 AM

Post #12 of 14 (1784 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

If you can repair it and the pump runs; producing the proper pressure; I wouldn’t replace it.

Dan.

Canadian "EH"






mike hammer
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Dec 24, 2009, 7:41 AM

Post #13 of 14 (1774 views)
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Thank you dan i have repaired the connector reinstalled the tank and everything else put the key in turned it and bang first shot it worked like a charm . with the tank out i was able to do some top notch cobbling and the connector is sound as a pound. Thanks for your patience. I have to say it is difficult to diagnose a problem like this when the fuel pump seems to work 1 out 10 times . this sort of unpredictable response is what kept me huddled over the relays.Everything looks good except the wire to wire connection i made about 3 inches away from the pump , the wires are twisted together and i have crimped a collar over the joins to solid it up but it is simply too cold here for electrical tape to stick well as i am working outside on the frozen ground.I will find some sort of non conductive and non temperature sensible epoxy to coat the joins. Thanks again Dan. Now all i need to do is try to find 1.5 square inches of new skin to replace the skin on my knuckles, man oh man oily wet skin sure breaks easily when its minus 15. All my best Mike


DanD
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Dec 24, 2009, 11:30 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1768 views)
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Re: 92 plymouth acclaim died on the highway [In reply to] Sign In

LOL
I know exactly what you’re talking about with the cold hands; but the idea of; I got you fixed, you bugger, makes up for all that.
Merry Christmas
Mike.

Dan.

Canadian "EH"








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