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89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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timjohnson
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Jan 12, 2010, 7:08 PM
Post #1 of 14
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89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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1989 S10 Blazer
145,xxx miles
4.3 V6
Today this vehicle decided to start stalling most of the time when you stop at a red light or stop sign once it warmed up. My son was driving it today and he was telling me about this. I drove it tonight, it did not stall till it reached operating temperature, then it did it nearly everytime I stopped. Put it in nuetral and it starts right back up and idles high for a second then back to running fine.. It has always had what I felt to be a high idle when you first start it anyway.
I have looked for the obvious such as broken vacuum lines but did not find any. Checked the pcv valve, it appears to be fine.
I checked for codes but the ECM does not have any stored.
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DanD
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/ Moderator
Jan 13, 2010, 5:20 AM
Post #2 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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I think you’re on the right track looking for some form of vacuum leak. Before the engine reaches operating temp; the computer will be feeding the engine extra fuel; which the engine needs to run smooth while cold.
You’ve already checked for external leaks as in broken vacuum lines; but also check the throttle body base gasket. They were well known for a chunk of this gasket getting sucked into the engine. You can usually use some form of air intake spray cleaner; sprayed at the base of the throttle body; if the rpm changes you’ve found a leak.
Also the EGR valve might be leaking or partly stuck open allowing exhaust gases back into the intake at idle.
There are many ways of checking this; but without getting into a bunch of detail; pull it off and check for chunks of carbon at the valve’s seat; clean or replace as necessary.
The EGR system may also have a vacuum actuator supply problem; as in the vacuum switch is supplying vacuum to the EGR valve’s diaphragm at idle, opening the valve. Try running the engine or driving the truck with the EGR valve’s vacuums hose disconnected.
If this is the case; that’s where we’ll have to get into specific tests, to find out who’s doing what to who.
Let us know if or what you find.
Dan
Canadian "EH"
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timjohnson
User
Jan 13, 2010, 5:52 PM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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Update- the engine now stalls all the time, it will not idle at all.
I pulled the throttle body tonight and as you suggested the gasket was pretty much non existant. There were only pieces of left. I put a new one on it and it is still doing the same thing.
I pulled the vacuum line from the EGR and opened the diaphram (sp) with a screw driver and held my finger over the vacuum port. It would not return to the closed position until I removed my finger.
The latest thing it did was backfire through the TBI and create a small fire, I extinquished it. One of my mechanic friends suggested that the knock sensor could be bad and it is retarding the timing all the time. Thoughts? Suggestions?
Not sure what else to try at this time.
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timjohnson
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Jan 13, 2010, 8:12 PM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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Update #2
Changed the knock sensor, still doing the same thing. It will start and idle rough. When it is about to die I try giving it fuel and it bogs down and backfires through the TBI. I am pretty certain it has not jumped time (although I am not positive) since this started when you stop the vehicle at first then got worse. In my experience when the timing jumps it happens at once not progressively.
Any ideas, opinions, commentary or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim
(This post was edited by timjohnson on Jan 13, 2010, 8:14 PM)
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Sidom
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/ Moderator
Jan 13, 2010, 8:56 PM
Post #5 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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I know this isn't the easiest thing to do & you'll probably have to rig something up to tie into where the fuel filter goes, but a fuel pressure reading really needs to be taken to make sure there is enough fuel pressure...
I believe this is a throttle body system so the fuel pressure should be between 9 & 13 psi
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timjohnson
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Jan 14, 2010, 5:59 AM
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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I will attempt to do that this evening (if I can find a fuel pressure gauge) and let you know. If the fuel pressure is low what would be the first thing you would suggest? Could it possibly be the fuel filter?
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timjohnson
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Jan 15, 2010, 6:42 AM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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Update #3
Have a guy at work that used to work for a local dealership. He came to the house last night and we have decided it has jumped time. Just amazes me that the problem started with the vehicle stalling when you come to a stop then went to not running period. We turned the engine by hand with the dist cap off and the crank pully moves a good three to four inches before the rotor turns.
Looks like my weekend has been pre-planned for me! Wish me luck.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 15, 2010, 6:51 AM
Post #8 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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Thanks for the update - that's a ton of free-play. Good news is this isn't the worst timing chain to do and I suggest taking radiator out for better clearances to work. Good luck,
T
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timjohnson
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Jan 16, 2010, 3:06 PM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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I have went a different route with this job after talking to a few people. Most of them suggested a fuel pressure issue. Since I do not have a pressure gauge I disconnected both line going to the TBI one at a time and turned the key on. The line of the drivers side of the engine spit some fuel out but not much. I put it back on and took the passenger side loose, it did nothing when I turned the key on. I am guessing this one is the return line.
I replaced the fuel filter and still got nothing so today I put a new fuel pump in it. Still not getting anything to come out of the fuel line when I dsconnect it from the TBI and turn the key on. The fuel pump is coming on. I double checked everything that I had done with the pump and it all appears to be correct. I labeled the 3 smaller rubber lines before I pulled them from the metal lines back by the tank. They were all put back in the correct locations.
My only guess now is some type of blockage in the fuel supply line or maybe the fuel pressure regulator, if it even has one.
When you crank the engine the injectors are dripping fuel instead of spraying a mist like I have been told it was supposed to do.
Once again, I removed the dist cap and rotated the engine by hand. While I was rotating it, my son watched the rotor. As long as I was turning the engine the rotor was moving. I can not explain why the other night you could move the crank pully 3-4" before the rotor moved. Unless there is a bad tooth on either the dist gear or the cam gear and we just happened to be at that point on the gear.
I have hit a brick wall with this.
(This post was edited by timjohnson on Jan 16, 2010, 5:05 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 16, 2010, 9:28 PM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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Rec'd your PM and replied. This should prime up for a few seconds whether engine starts or not from another issue TMK. Just turning key to "run" should give you spec for fuel pressure.
If need be go back to fuel filter, follow that line back to tank so you know which is outlet line to engine. With helper if needed go back with fuel line and watch the fuel come out into a glass container preferred. Should look clean. If just a dribble go back till it works or perhaps pump isn't getting enough power to it?? Wiring plugs can reduce available power if not in good shape - GM more than some others.
If needed rig up an old tire valve to be clamped in a line and use (it will wreck it) a tire pressure gauge all the way back.
Never found a blocked line but there's always a first. The metal lines can rust and leak and are usually placed where they won't be pinched from jacking it up or mostly out of harms way.
There must be a pressure regulator but can't expound as I have have one fail yet and retired now.
With new fuel pump, did you do a new screen and did old one look all dirty or with rust from tank? Just tossing out ideas. This has gone from stalling to not running but should still show fuel pressure,
T
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timjohnson
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Jan 17, 2010, 7:32 AM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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I failed to mention that I replaced the screen when I replaced the fuel pump. The old one looked well, old. I looked like it had done it's job. I will pull the line loose coming in to the fuel filter and see if there is flow there.
Thanks for your help
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nickwarner
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/ Moderator
Jan 17, 2010, 8:37 PM
Post #12 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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You have a TBI engine and the fuel pressure regulator is integrated with the 2 injectors. Its not expensive but you need to know that they are the trouble through a pressure test. The regulator is part of the TBI unit. See what you can find and double check your base timing to see if it is within spec. Timing chains dont go bad often on your model but I always say stranger things have happened to smarter people so give in a good look. Time to go back to basics as you have a non-complicated engine and its not hard to work with. A lot of them in the boneyard too so used parts are cheap
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timjohnson
User
Jan 18, 2010, 5:56 AM
Post #13 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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Back to basics is exactly what fixed it!
A guy from my work came over the otehr night and was looking at it, he replaced the dist cap and the rotor. Come to find out, he installed the rotor 180 out and that is what was keeping it from starting. I am so very glad I did not tear the engine down and put a not needed timing chain and gears in it. The worst thing I did was put a fuel pump in it and I actually think that it was close to going out. The reason I was not getting any fuel pressure was because the fuel level was low in the tank. When I added 4 gallons to it I started getting a mist out of the injectors instead of a drip.
Thanks to everyone on here that replied to my posts for your help, it is greatly appreciated!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 18, 2010, 6:21 AM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: 89 s10 blazer stalls at stop sign after warm
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Tim - to add some suggestions: Don't let fuel run that low as the fuel cool electric fuel pumps and running out of gas and always low is hard on them.
Timing Chains: They do go! I've pulled many off the gears without taking the gears off! Some - especially so called American vehicles used a nylon toothed cam gear that with all the care in the world still failed over time not just miles. Retired now a long time but on harder engines for even water pumps if they had over 100K I'd ask customers if they wanted to go one step further for a new all metal chain and shockingly most were pretty sloppy and vehicle just ran so nice when they were tight again. Never did the metal ones twice!
Glad your up and running,
T
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