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2006 Honda Accord won't start


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YogaFireee
User

May 4, 2023, 4:34 PM

Post #1 of 30 (770 views)
post icon 2006 Honda Accord won't start Sign In

Year of vehicle: 2006
Make of vehicle: Honda
Model of vehicle: Accord
Engine size: 2.4L
Mileage/Kilometers: around 168k miles/ 270.4k Kilometers

Symptoms:

When you try to start the car it cranks and starts shaking but in the end it doesn't start.

What i've done so far:

The CEL was on and it was throwing a coolant sensor error. A mechanic replaced the coolant sensor, replaced the coolant and replaced the thermostat which was also faulty.

A day after the fix the symptoms appeared again and no CEL is on now. When the mechanic checked the fuel injector they were full of fuel or something. Also, when he was fixing the car he told me that the car let out black smoke. I've read that the black smoke could be due to bad MAF sensor but idk about cars so yeah.

He explained to me that something must be causing the fuel injectors to have an incorrect mix of fuel and air, hence why the car suddenly doesnt want to start anymore. He explained that there are 3 sensors involved, the TPS sensor, the coolant sensor (the one that throwed the error and got replaced) and the MAF sensor.

The car idles fine, it accelerates fine, no check engine light comes on like i said, and there are no blinking problems in the dasboard so maybe it's not battery related but i DID notice one thing: If you don't completely turn the key when starting the car, it makes like a buzzing sound and doesnt even crank, (most cars i dont have to forcefully turn the ignition all the way for it to turn on, about 90% of the way is fine)

Since the Check engine light is not on I don't know what I could do, he will come back and check the car again but any help/tips on what it could be would help, i can relay the message if needed.


(This post was edited by YogaFireee on May 4, 2023, 5:12 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 4, 2023, 4:51 PM

Post #2 of 30 (757 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

The first thing you need to do is test the fuel pressure using an accurate gauge paying attention to whether it comes up the the factory spec, how long it takes to get to that spec and does it hold when the key is shut off. That will tell us a lot.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



YogaFireee
User

May 6, 2023, 6:30 AM

Post #3 of 30 (699 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Although I haven't been able to test the fuel pressure yet, I've realized a few things.

The car will start normally asumming it hasn't been driven in a few hours, but once you drive it for a bit and turn it off it won't turn back on for a few hours. It is as if something needs to dry off first or something.

Also, i noticed that the car doesn't have an IAT sensor, instead somebody put some electrical tape over the hole where you place the IAT sensor and called it a day.

Do you think that could contribute to the fact that the car doesn't start suddenly?


Might I add, once you start the car there are no misfires, no excessive shaking, the engine sounds good, no acceleration problems (or at least I haven't noticed yet), no battery problems.


I also tried to start the car with the MAF sensor unplugged and it still didn't turn on so it's not the MAF sensor. In fact, when a buddy scanned my car I got the P0113 code, that is a code for the IAT sensor, which like I said, the car doesn't even have one.


(This post was edited by YogaFireee on May 6, 2023, 6:33 AM)


Hammer Time
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May 6, 2023, 6:35 AM

Post #4 of 30 (695 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

That will definitely destroy the fuel mixture calculations.
If an IAT is disconnected the computer will see -40F and that will cause a severe rich mixture and flood a warm engine.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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May 6, 2023, 7:32 AM

Post #5 of 30 (690 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

So put one back on? Why tape over it, and how long have you put up with that? Point is it that it's sure not good for this car/engine,
Tom



YogaFireee
User

May 6, 2023, 7:43 AM

Post #6 of 30 (684 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

This was a used car I bought about a week ago, don't know how long it's been running without it. didn't notice that detail until the first time the car didn't want to turn on.

Im definitely not knowledgeable about cars, i only know basic things so I called a my mechanic, he scanned the car, got codes for thermostat and coolant sensor, he replaced both things, and we assumed it was fixed until the car did the same thing again.

Hit my buddy up and as soon as he propped the hood he noticed the lack of IAT and the tape over the hole. Hence, why I updated the post.


Tom Greenleaf
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May 6, 2023, 10:26 AM

Post #7 of 30 (664 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Cool + understood. Look at oil, smell it too for fuel. Change out anyway to what you like it's also unknown is the guess du Jour.

Why the tape a mystery it's a costly thing or not cloned one or top shelf go looking you know it has to have it. Good luck,

Tom



YogaFireee
User

May 6, 2023, 5:59 PM

Post #8 of 30 (646 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Ok, I will install a new IAT sensor and do an oil change on the car just in case some fuel has leaked into it.

Thank you!

I will update the post if the problem is not fixed.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 6, 2023, 6:18 PM

Post #9 of 30 (643 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Please post back either way so we know the resolution.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



YogaFireee
User

May 7, 2023, 6:58 AM

Post #10 of 30 (619 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

No problem, as soon as I manage to fix it I will post back with whatever I did to solve it.


YogaFireee
User

May 10, 2023, 5:28 PM

Post #11 of 30 (571 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Quick update:

Mechanic scanned the car and the IAT sensor was reading 104F so it was working, air temperature was over 88 F with a heat index of over 90 F (when i say air temperature and heat index i mean the temperature of the place I live at, not a car related temperature) so he determined it was working fine. Apparently the IAT sensor may be integrated into the MAF sensor since he couldn't find the harness for the IAT sensor.

Mechanic checked the car with a scan tool (sort of like a tablet) while the engine was running and he was getting random little misfires in all cylinders, same thing happened while we were driving the car.

The misfires would happen in intervals of like 2 - 3 minutes and just for a moment, in fact, if the scan tool wasn't actively looking at the car data you wouldn't even notice the car misfired, the misfires were THAT small.

He interchanged the coils 1 and 3 since at first only cylinder #1 misfired but even after interchanging the positions the misfires continued in all cylinders in a seemingly random manner. When he changed 1 and 3, the cylinder #4 misfired, then #1 misfired, eventually all 4 cylinders misfired so we dismissed that the problem was the ignition coils.

After taking the car for a ride, he turned off the car and then tried to start it back up, as expected it didn't start the first time, on the second try it struggled but it eventually started.

We also checked the spark plugs and all 4 were in really bad condition. They were brown and one even had rust in it.

Tomorrow I will buy the 4 spark plugs and change them and hopefully this fixes the problem.

Do you guys think this whole problem of the car starting fine if it's cold but after it's been run for 15 - 20 min it has difficulty starting/doesn't start at all sometimes could be caused by 4 faulty spark plugs?

Also, i want to clarify that so far the problem happen ONLY after you drive the car and the engine is warm. The reason i know that you HAVE TO drive the car for it to happen is because we had the car turned on (engine running but we didnt drive the car yet) for like 40 mins and turned the car on and off multiple times during the diagnosis process and it always turned on fine. It was only AFTER we did the test drive and turned off the car that the car had a lot of trouble starting back up.


(This post was edited by YogaFireee on May 10, 2023, 5:29 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
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May 10, 2023, 6:20 PM

Post #12 of 30 (565 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Forget "heat index" or if/when "wind chill" isn't a temperature, it's a bogus way to say how it feels IMO - bogus.

Forgot - you asked if 4 spark plugs could be bad? YES! Wrong type, brand it needed new. That matters.

Real temp of a car, surface it's on + heat from engine/radiator.

Tests for temp things should be and seem at that spot.
Now if not a temp sensing item one is confusing another to foul plugs is the proof.

Just notes - temps accounted for would be normal 104F BTW is cold to a fuel burning engine.

It was checked in person something doesn't jive yet if run before testing that temp is fine. That's all let another peg which one if possible it had the scan, plugs showed it and I'm still thinking :-)
Tom

(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on May 10, 2023, 6:24 PM)


YogaFireee
User

May 10, 2023, 7:58 PM

Post #13 of 30 (544 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Alright thank you for the information!

hope that changing the spark plugs fixes the problem.

If not, maybe I will have to start checking for problems in the fuel system.


Sidom
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May 10, 2023, 8:00 PM

Post #14 of 30 (543 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

I'll just add a little bit of information. Years ago I was working on a V6 Acura, which is basically, an expensive Honda. It had multiple misfire codes and a dead miss on #1.. When I cleared out the codes only #1 came back, but in a few minutes, like a domino effect, all the other misfire codes started coming back.
I changed out the #1 coil clear the codes and none of the others came back.

If moving the coil affected the miss, I would change out that coil along with the plugs


YogaFireee
User

May 10, 2023, 8:16 PM

Post #15 of 30 (540 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Thank you for the info!

My mechanic told me that he didn't want to tell me to buy ignition coils yet since he had no concrete evidence that the problem was caused by the coils and they're also more expensive so we started replacing the cheapest thing, the spark plugs, since all 4 were in really bad condition.

I don't know if this is accurate but in the past i dealt with a car (mitsubishi mirage) that had a problem with the #3 connector in the ignition coil harness. The ground cable was sort of broken and the car was misfiring heavy, to the point where it would stall constantly, sometimes it wouldn't turn on, it wouldn't accelerate very well, etc...

So based on that experience i expected to experience the same thing if the ignition coil itself or the connectors were in bad shape. But like I mentioned previously, the car runs well once it's turned on, apparently it is misfiring but you dont even notice it, accelerates well, etc.


Sidom
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May 11, 2023, 12:38 AM

Post #16 of 30 (520 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

No nothing wrong at all with taking care of the maintenance items 1st. That is the best plan and the cheapest If it fixes the problem.

I just mentioned that car because it seemed a bit similar to your problem. With that cascade failure, it really seemed like it was gonna be way more complex of a problem than it turned out to be.


Tom Greenleaf
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May 11, 2023, 2:50 AM

Post #17 of 30 (514 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Arg? Love "Cascade" as a word Sidom. OP, plugs are the last and only spark however triggered took some hit have to go OE spec.

High voltage things just seek the easy way to ground forced by insulation and integrity of all items + @ assorted temps and loads - mind-blowing anything works.

Be fast if new first seem was the result more than the cause if wrong ones - voila is a cause.

Coils that can work? Jeez - unseen traces like a crack OK then made worse temps, humidity, load request along with fuel split second made spot on - it isn't.

The fix all at the lowest cost and hard to be sure. Stinks!!

Popular car so parts cloned (pet peeve) also every effort to package and deliver without damage new.

U with help, all info you can gather tests or seeing it live, scanner helpful. For now the result seem improper fuel delivery doesn't mean those items but fuel itself can't know the additive for expected times of year change + can't count all the local, state or area you are does or requires - expect lots more testing to find source problem faster the better or a repeat later likely? Persistence needed.
Keep trying hopes to be pinned down - everything matters!
Tom


Hammer Time
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May 11, 2023, 4:27 AM

Post #18 of 30 (509 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In


Quote
hope that changing the spark plugs fixes the problem.


Let me explain this a different way.

Look at it this way. The coil is the source of power and the spark plug is the resistance it has to go through.
Changing the plug can reduce the resistance the spark has to travel through and could fix it TEMPORARILY because the power supply only has enough reserve to push through a low resistance spark plug. Changing the coil also gives it more reserve to overcome higher resistance in a weak plug.

This is why it's always a good idea to change the coil and plug together.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



YogaFireee
User

May 11, 2023, 4:34 AM

Post #19 of 30 (504 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Oh wow I didn't know that,that's why usually they are changed together at the same time!


Tom Greenleaf
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May 11, 2023, 4:44 AM

Post #20 of 30 (500 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

I'd do that. lots here to think on, that changed the show, temporary change to re-occur. Hate parts tossing this time do it testing coils could be all over the place - new, T


YogaFireee
User

Jun 1, 2023, 7:28 PM

Post #21 of 30 (422 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Hello everyone,

Haven't forgotten to update the thread, today I got my car back from a mechanic shop (independent mechanic).

He couldn't find what's causing the problem with my car, he changed the spark plugs since I had already bought them, didn't fix it.


He checked the fuel pump, fuel injectors, and a couple of other things and nope.

he says the motor and transmission are good, and everything else about the car is good but he couldn't pin point what's causing the car to get a rich fuel mixture when you try to start it after running it for a while.


If it helps, what I've been doing when the car doesn't wanna start is that I start the car with my foot on the pedal and slowly let go as the car begins to start up. It's the only way the car starts when the problem kicks in.


(This post was edited by YogaFireee on Jun 1, 2023, 7:29 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 1, 2023, 8:00 PM

Post #22 of 30 (412 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Did he suggest another tech (not common to do that) to check this out?
Try another. There are only so many things that make an incorrect rich mixture it's playing "hide and seek" needs more "seeking."

Update appreciated the end fix when known will help others. Nothing is going to beat in person and qualified checking. Keep at it, Tom


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 2, 2023, 3:56 AM

Post #23 of 30 (404 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Sounds like you need a better mechanic.

There are basic functions that have to be verified in any crank, no start diagnosis.


All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.



Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.

These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.

1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.


2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.


3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.

4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.

Once you have determined which one or combination of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



YogaFireee
User

Jun 3, 2023, 8:43 AM

Post #24 of 30 (383 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

He did not suggest another tech, and yes, I agree that this is a problem that needs more "seeking". Also, I will update the post whenever I finally find the fix for it.


YogaFireee
User

Jun 3, 2023, 8:48 AM

Post #25 of 30 (382 views)
Re: 2006 Honda Civic won't start Sign In

Thank you for providing this information.

In fact, one the things he mentioned is that since sometimes it is a bit difficult to replicate the problem and test since you have to drive the car for a minimum certain amount of time for the problem to show up (emphasis on *drive* the car and not just turning it on and leaving the engine running while the car is parked, if dont drive it the problem never shows up).


I was thinking that maybe I should take it to a honda service center since I don't really know anymore good independent mechanics. Do you think this is a good idea?






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