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2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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tom4416
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Dec 15, 2009, 6:44 PM
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2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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06 Accord Value Package sedan, front disk, rear drums, 2.4L, automatic. At about 65K miles, steering wheel would vibrate and you could feel a shudder when braking from speeds above 50mph. Changes pads and rotors (front, rears are shoes), problem persists. Checked runout on new rotors - none. Cleaned and lubed caliper slider pins, flushed and bled brake fluid, tires are new, alignment is fresh. Car doesn't pull when braking, just this shudder and vibration until the car slows below about 40mph, seems to get worse the hotter the brakes are. I've checked front end components, everything appears tight, no movement in the wheels like a bad bearing. Car now has 77K on it. It's been to the dealer twice, but they only go out and drive it on 35mph surface streets for five minutes and come back with no trouble found reports even though I've asked them to please take it out on the Interstate and, when safe, to brake fairly hard (or to ride with me and I'll demonstrate it) but they claim it should do it at all speeds if there is a problem.
I'm at a loss where to go next. I'm kind of down to thinking it might be a bad caliper that is binding up the piston but I've got no uneven pad wear and didn't on the old pads with 70K miles. Any help is appreciated and thanks so much for this great forum!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 15, 2009, 6:56 PM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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90% of the time when that happens, it's cause by distorted front rotors. Brake drums rarely cause that problem but it is possible. I would have the read drums resurfaced and see what happens. If your a real aggressive driver, you may have only resolved half of the problem with the new rotors.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 15, 2009, 6:56 PM)
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Sidom
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Dec 15, 2009, 9:40 PM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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On cars with rear drums, if I suspect the vibration is coming from the rear, I'll take the car out, get it hot and when coming up to a stop carefully use the park brk only to stop. If I get a vibration, I know the drums are warped.. You are basically taking the frt out of the picture doing this.
Like HT says, it rare but it does happen...........
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Hammer Time
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Dec 16, 2009, 3:49 AM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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I've never had much luck with that test. It seems the brake shoes just flex too much and you never feel the problem. I found if I remove the rear wheel, put the lugs back on the drum only and rotate it by hand, you will feel the high spots when it rotates.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 16, 2009, 3:49 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 16, 2009, 4:22 AM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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Suggestion: Don't go nuts but in a safe place try hold the release for parking brake and use is as that is using only the rear brakes. If it does it then you know it's the rear,
T
Ps: If you are not comfortable trying that DON'T!
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tom4416
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Dec 16, 2009, 6:08 AM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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I'll try stopping it with the just the rear brakes today, I've got some empty rural roads where it won't happen in traffic. I would think if it was the rears, I would feel something in the pedal but maybe not. Does anyone still turn drums if that's what it turns out to be? Thanks for the quick replies.
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DanD
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Dec 16, 2009, 6:51 AM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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With you saying that the problem gets worse, the warmer the brakes get and the problem wasn’t resolved by replacing the rotors. I’m thinking you may have a front or rear hub that is warping when heated and in turn warping the rotor or drum. It may just be that a rotor or drum is warping on its own when heated but with the issue not changing after the fronts were replaced, not likely? Regardless of which, measuring run-out of the rotors or machining the rotors & drums will not do anything; they’re already (relatively speaking) cold by the time you get to them and will measure or machine fine.
You’ll have to determine whether its front or rear and the only way I can think of (due to the heat issue); is as Sidom & Tom has said.
Use some common sense and keep your thumb held down on the release and you’ll be fine doing this. You may need to pull the brake on fairly hard & quickly; just short of the rear’s locking; that’s to duplicate the pressures required; so be ready for it.
Yes sometimes road testing a problem vehicle; we have to act like stunt drivers; but you know the feel of your car and should be able to anticipate when a lock-up is going to occur?
By your description of the steering wheel vibrating; I think you’ll find the problem will be in the front; usually with a rear warp-age issue; you’ll feel the vibration in the seat of your paints; but with that being said there’s nothing written in stone, in this trade.
Why I’m thinking hub is because; I just went through this with a Focus that another shop gave up on; this is after they did a four wheel brake job and couldn’t get rid of the vibration. It took a lot of trial & error to find out it was the left front hub; twisting the brand new rotor. In this case the hub didn’t have excessive run-out; but the mating surface between the rotor and hub was cupped or puckered between two of the wheel studs. Measuring the run-out of the rotor with the wheel off; just the wheel nuts to hold the rotor, it measured fine. Put the wheel on, which has more mating surface against the rotor and hub and it twisted the rotor. Someone somewhere probably used an impact gun to tighten the wheels on and bent the hub?
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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tom4416
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Dec 16, 2009, 1:05 PM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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I tried stopping with the just the rear brakes, no vibration transmitted anywhere so I think that at least isolates it to the front system. Dan, you talked about measuring the runout on the hub and I haven't done that, just on the rotor mated to the hub with the lug nuts. I could see where heat would make the problem rear its ugly head. How did you finally isolate it to a particular wheel? Don't laugh, but I've ever thought about some way to mount a video camera aiming at the front wheels one at a time to "see" if I notice any movement while braking but doubt it is enough to see with the naked eye as the vibration only moves the steering wheel ~1/4 inch in either direction but very rapidly. I also don't get any pulsing in the brake pedal which I've felt before on cars with warped rotors. Off hand, no one has torqued the lug nuts except me and Costco (and I watched them carefully, refusing to allow them to bring the impact anywhere near the car when installing the new tires). I do all my own work on the car, rotate the tires myself and always torque with an accurate torque wrench to the factory specifications and in the proper order. Doesn't mean a hub just hasn't gone bad as things can fail.
Am I safe in assuming that if I can't feel any play when grabbing the wheel up on a lift and applying lots of lateral and vertical force that the bearings are okay? I would assume I'd hear some roaring while driving if it was in the bearings or some vibration all the time or at least while going around corners. The car is my wife's daily driver and so don't want her driving it if it's unsafe - annoying is fine, unsafe is not. The dealer also said they "inspected" the bearings although I know for a fact they didn't go down to the bearings because the nut has a retaining system that is marked from the factory and that mark has never been disturbed. Their inspection was probably very similar to mine. When I had the alignment done a couple of weeks ago, asked the technician (an old time and very reliable front end technician) to check all the suspension components and he pronounced everything as tight as new.
I'm reaching the limits of my technical capabilities and will probably have to try and find a local shop that can try and track it all down.
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DanD
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Dec 17, 2009, 5:06 AM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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Like I was saying; with just the wheel nuts on to hold the rotor, there was no excessive run-out on the rotor. But when we bolted the wheel to the hub and then measured run-out, we found it to be over the spec. At first thinking it was the wheel; we tried rotated it with another and had the same result. Replaced the hub and all was good.
With a ¼ inch deflection of the steering wheel; you would think this would be easy to find? You can’t pick out what side; usually with that much distortion you would hear a kind of warbling sound while this was happening?
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 19, 2009, 4:08 AM
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Re: 2006 Honda Accord with vibrating brakes/front end
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Just to add about rotors even new: I've seen new super cheap Chinese rotors be no good. If poor metal they may warp when warm and test fine when cold. If poorly recycled metal and were the cheap rotors it's a maybe?? It's happened to me when a custom would request the cheapest way out,
T
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