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2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts


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tonytwotimes
Novice

Jul 27, 2015, 12:37 PM

Post #1 of 19 (1239 views)
2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

Hi Guys,
Girlfriend and I went on vacation in her 2005 escape. We get to a moderate grade, and the thing has no guts. Had it floored and was struggling to maintain 25 mph, even if I kept it in a lower gear at 4000 rpms. We took it into the nearest place (ford dealership) where they said their diagnostics said new spark plugs should do the trick. They said they would be happy to do it for $600(!!!)--I decided to limp it home and try to same some money. The rig has 138k on it, and besides oil changes, she hasn't had anything done. I changed the air filter (which was filthy), replaced the spark plugs (which looked awful) with autolite iridiums, and replaced the fuel filter (which was nasty). I also ran some fuel injector cleaner through it.

The problem has not been fixed. It's still running terribly. It fires right up when started cold, and the high idle is fine. When it drops to the low idle, however it starts running really rough. It still has no power and if the engine is warm, it starts rough. Also, when I'm at really low RPMs, it occasionally feels like the power brakes don't function properly--the brakes work, but the pedal is less smooth and harder to press. To me, when this happens it feels like the soft, consistent, pneumatic resistance from the pedal is no longer there.

At this point I am completely lost and have no idea what my next step is. Any advice you all could provide would be more than appreciated!
Thanks!


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 27, 2015, 1:12 PM

Post #2 of 19 (1231 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

Before you go too crazy this sounds a bit like an exhaust restriction = less power then you said power brakes issue?
It actually could be just the power brakes causing the issue - leaking vacuum but should run lousy and throw codes if that bad.
Other things to but guess is in exhaust is restricted. If you can find a manifold actual vacuum source to "T" into should read about 18 Hg at idle and the same @ 2,000 RPM with no load if not restriction highly suspect,


T



tonytwotimes
Novice

Jul 27, 2015, 3:36 PM

Post #3 of 19 (1219 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

I took it into the dealership after disconnecting battery terminal, so no engine light was on while they had it (i'm not sure if that would prevent them from getting info from car). The brake issue is pretty spontaneous and rare. I'd say I notice it about 5% I'm braking at low RPMs. When we first noticed the problem I immediately thought of spark plugs. Before I took the car into the mechanic, I saw that the three spark plugs in front were easily accessible (while the back three were under the manifold), so I changed those in our hotel parking lot to see if that improved the problem (that's when i disconnected battery). Someone staying in a nearby room said it sounded like we might have a vacuum leak, but I didn't give it much thought. Is there an easy way to check if that's the issue?
Thanks!


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 27, 2015, 4:02 PM

Post #4 of 19 (1215 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

You cleared codes and that doesn't help but hard codes would come right back. Plugs were lousy as you said so this probably didn't happen just all at once but over some time of it running incorrectly.


Vacuum leak could be checked with carb cleaner but a simple vacuum gauge could tell you more and other checks like fuel pressure.


Seems what you have found shows some serious neglect. Perhaps too long and will need to do some comprehensive general diagnostics to see real condition of this engine now.


A vacuum test is about as cheap and easy as you are going to get. If an exhaust restriction it will show up. About now with condition of plugs think cat/converter would be the likely reason or a real problem with the exhaust in some other way - BENT something you should be able to see.


IDK - brakes now don't seem so important to you. The booster would pick up some vacuum to work properly for a while then maybe go weak, loss of power warm is inline with what I've suggested.


If unable you need help to at least know where you stand with this not necessarily a dealer,


T



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 27, 2015, 5:08 PM

Post #5 of 19 (1209 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

A vacuum leak won't cause loss of power at wide open throttle. It still could have a vacuum leak, but something else is going on too. Was the check engine light flashing? When you limped it home how far did you drive?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jul 27, 2015, 5:09 PM)


tonytwotimes
Novice

Jul 27, 2015, 5:33 PM

Post #6 of 19 (1206 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

The check engine light did come back on eventually. We drove it about 120 miles back home, and have put another 50 or so since then to run injector cleaner. I can certainly attest that the lack of power was every bit as noticeable at full throttle.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 27, 2015, 5:42 PM

Post #7 of 19 (1204 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

Really would have been nice to see what trouble code(s) it was storing.

Usually loss of power at WOT is caused by misfiring due to lack of fuel or ignition on one or more cylinders. An exhaust restriction can cause that too. The kicker is if you have an ignition misfire and drove it that far it is a good bet the catalyst is cooked. Your going to need scan tool data now and to also look at mode $06 data to see if it is counting misfires or not to determine which cylinders are missing. That is unless it codes. I sure wouldn't drive it like that now. Ignition coils failing is common on those, but diagnosis should have been done before you pulled the intake to do the back plugs.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


tonytwotimes
Novice

Jul 28, 2015, 4:46 PM

Post #8 of 19 (1176 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

I hooked it up to a computer and got two errors, both of which were the same code. I put the address of a photo I took of the scanner with my computer so you guys could see the error code. I'm thinking catalytic converter :-/....what would your next move be?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/...150728_162220066.jpg


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 28, 2015, 5:33 PM

Post #9 of 19 (1174 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

That code is for the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) system. Basically the PCM is thinking there is too much EGR flow. If the valve is open while the engine is idling, that would cause a rough idle and possible stalling. The EGR valve is vacuum operated, so pull the vacuum line from it and see if the idle improves. There should be no vacuum on the end of that line at idle.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jul 28, 2015, 5:37 PM)


tonytwotimes
Novice

Jul 29, 2015, 2:06 PM

Post #10 of 19 (1150 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

So am I in the clear with catalytic converter, and it's a problem with the EGR? Or is that still a possibile headache? Pending your advice, my next step would be to remove the vacuum line going from solenoid to valve, which would effectively disable the EGR system. If the car idles/runs better with this disconnected, it's the EGR.

How far off am i? Smile

Thanks again for your help!


tonytwotimes
Novice

Jul 30, 2015, 12:32 PM

Post #11 of 19 (1128 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

 I found this guide, which I plan to follow to systematically test the EGR component by component:
link deleted ........................... not allowed

I'm hoping the problems we're experiencing are due to the EGR valve, pressure sensor, or solenoid. I really don't want it to be 1, 2, or 3 of the cat converters

Thanks agian for all your input!


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 30, 2015, 1:35 PM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 30, 2015, 1:07 PM

Post #12 of 19 (1124 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

All you have to do is go directly to the EGR valve itself and remove the vacuum line just to see if your rough idle goes away.

That code can set if you have a faulty DPFE or if the valve is mechanically not closing also, but just wanted to eliminate a vacuum issue causing the EGR valve to be opened at idle first.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jul 30, 2015, 1:07 PM)


tonytwotimes
Novice

Aug 12, 2015, 12:43 PM

Post #13 of 19 (1041 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

Hey guys, I had something come up, so wasn't able to get to this as quickly as I would like. Here's an update.
I removed the vacuum line going directly to the EGR like DiscreteSignals suggested. The idle immediately improved. Then I hooked a vacuum pump up to the EGR. When I put a vacuum on it the rough idle returned. The vacuum pressure did not stay steady, but quickly decreased. I checked the connections between the hose and pump and hose and nipple on EGR and I don't think that's where the vaccuum pressure was escaping. I interpreted this as a bad diaphragm in the EGR Valve. Then I hooked the vacuum line back up and headed to auto part store to pick up a new EGR valve. TO my surprise, the car was running remarkably better on the way to the Napa. Unfortunatley, we got hit with a crazy storm while I was in the sotre, and the power went out. I didn't end up buying the part.

So now, the car is running A LOT better. Also, the check engine light hasn't returned, though it's probably only been driven 30-50 miles. I'm wondering if somehow I inadvertently cleared a blockage somewhere when testing the EGR valve initially. Does this make sense? I'm still planning on spending the $50 for a new valve and replacing that in the next day or two. While I have the old valve removed, I'll check where I can for built up carbon.

Does it sound to you guys like this is good to go when I replace the EGR valve? Is my diagnosis of a bad diaphragm inside correct? Thanks a gain for all your help!


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 12, 2015, 2:16 PM

Post #14 of 19 (1039 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

he EGR is not supposed to receive vacuum at idle, If it does, that's not the valves fault unless the valve comes with vacuum solenoids.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



tonytwotimes
Novice

Aug 13, 2015, 7:36 AM

Post #15 of 19 (1020 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

I think I understand. The fact that the idle was better when I disconnected the vacuum line from the EGR showed that there was a vacuum on it (even though there shouldn't have been). This would suggest a problem with the solenoid or the sensor that fires the solenoid. I don't understand why the idle is so much better now after disconnecting/reconnecting that line.

Am I correct in thinking that the diaphragm inside the valve is busted though (because it didn't hold vacuum pressure) and that the valve needs to be replaced anyway?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 13, 2015, 7:51 AM

Post #16 of 19 (1019 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

The solenoid may have been stuck on and releasing the vacuum released it. I have seen them act that way. It usually happens again though.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



tonytwotimes
Novice

Aug 13, 2015, 9:37 AM

Post #17 of 19 (1016 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

Thanks, that's really useful info! do you think you would replace the valve if you were in my situation?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 13, 2015, 11:02 AM

Post #18 of 19 (1013 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

Didn't you say this leaked down at the diaphragm? Try this: Many you can either apply vacuum manually with a hand pump or push with fingers under side of it. Either then plug the nipple where vacuum line goes and see if it still moves as in leaking. If so rubber is failing but still might work some.


That would mean replace it. I've cleaned, tried to repair a few and unless wildly expensive (think not) always better to go new or have to. Just a couple had stuck pintles crusted up and didn't seal or shut off EGR valve operation well enough all other tossed for new.


Vacuum you mentioned was always present and may be designed that way and controlled to operate electrically not direct vacuum by the right spot on throttle body that would be "venturi" vacuum not manifold vacuum if passively operated so as not to move at idle or WOT,


T



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 13, 2015, 12:03 PM

Post #19 of 19 (1005 views)
Re: 2005 ford escape (3.0L) got no guts Sign In

That EGR is opened by manifold vacuum when the EGR vacuum solenoid is turn on by the engine computer. I'd unplug the EGR vacuum solenoid electrical connector and make sure you don't have any vacuum on the end of that line. If there is vacuum on the end of the line with the engine idling, the solenoid could be faulty, as long as you have everything connected correctly. There should be an emissions sticker under the hood that shows the vacuum line routing. Make sure it is connected correctly.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 13, 2015, 12:06 PM)






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