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2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START.


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DIYMachWon
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Jun 27, 2020, 9:09 AM

Post #1 of 27 (480 views)
2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

 
Had the car (125,000 miles) die on me during a errand run. Car seemed fine had just filled the gas tank when it died at an intersection. The car stalled then would crank but not start. Had it towed so I could trouble shoot. Prior to this happening the car did have a few trips to Orlando and back approximately 160 miles round. During the drive I did notice some whining from the engine bay area just sounded like a pulley. Since the car has been sitting I have/had:

-The battery has been replaced recently.
-Replaced spark plugs
-Replaced ignition coil (Warranted)
-Replaced the camshaft positioning censor.(Warranted)



The car does have spark. The fuel pump sounds like its working properly. And the only code I'm showing is P0303 (cylinder 3 misfire). I don't know where to go from here except check the fuel pressure. After that I'll be at a loss.


Hammer Time
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Jun 27, 2020, 9:36 AM

Post #2 of 27 (457 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

 All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.



Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.

These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.

1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.


2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.


3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.

4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.

Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
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Jun 27, 2020, 2:47 PM

Post #3 of 27 (439 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.

I have spark at all plugs.


2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.

I wasn't able to procure a Noid light. Although I was able to test with a multimeter. The readings were 12.8Ω for all
injectors. Normal range for Dodge 2.0L/ 2.4L are between 11Ω and 18Ω


3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.

Turned ignition key to on position. Pressure goes to 56 psi then slowly falls to 48 psi after 5mins then to 45 after 10 mins and continue to fall at about 2-3 psi every 5 mins there after.

4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.

Haven't been able to get a compression test gauge yet.


Hammer Time
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Jun 27, 2020, 2:52 PM

Post #4 of 27 (433 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In


Quote
I wasn't able to procure a Noid light. Although I was able to test with a multimeter. The readings were 12.8Ω for all
injectors. Normal range for Dodge 2.0L/ 2.4L are between 11Ω and 18Ω


That procedure doesn't test anything but available power supply.

You need to test for injector pulse and the only safe way to do it is with a noid light. Other methods can fry the computer.

You also need to get the compression tested. You symptom of whining could mean a timing belt pulley let go.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
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Jun 27, 2020, 3:06 PM

Post #5 of 27 (427 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

I'll be able to get the Noid lights tomorrow. O'Reilly had and engine compression tool but it didn't have a gauge or adapter for the spark plug location so I'm not familiar with it. I did replace the timing belt at about 90,000 miles but it was about 7 years ago. Would the belt be fine if the pully went?


Hammer Time
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Jun 27, 2020, 3:11 PM

Post #6 of 27 (425 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In


Quote
Would the belt be fine if the pully went?


Oh Hell no. You'll be looking for a new engine if that happened.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
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Jun 27, 2020, 3:17 PM

Post #7 of 27 (421 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

Would it even be worth investigating at this time? The belt/ pully aren't in the most friendly location. Or should I exhaust the other options first?


Hammer Time
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Jun 27, 2020, 3:20 PM

Post #8 of 27 (419 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

That's why you need to take a compression test right away.

If the engine seems to have a different sound when cranking, that would be a good indication of a compression problem.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
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Jun 27, 2020, 3:30 PM

Post #9 of 27 (413 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

I understand. Currently it sounds the same when cranking just no start. Although if you do crank long enough you will hear a loud pop. Sort of like a backfire but its coming from the front of the engine near the intake area. I did notice a flash when I attempted last night.


DIYMachWon
User

Jun 27, 2020, 3:32 PM

Post #10 of 27 (409 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

Will there be any more need for the fuel pressure gauge or can I return it? Along with the purchased fuel pump.


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 27, 2020, 3:41 PM

Post #11 of 27 (396 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

"Compression testers" I used to have one that was just a rubber tip you held firmly in anything would read the pressure. Sure, you needed a helper to crank engine OR set it up to remote crank that I wouldn't do ever on this car.
You can also make your own with any cheap, pressure locking tester with an old spark plug you said you replaced them hope you kept those or one are useful for silly stuff like that,


T



Hammer Time
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Jun 27, 2020, 3:59 PM

Post #12 of 27 (392 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

Yes, fuel pressure is good.

Tom, these are deep recessed plug holes so he needs something with a threaded hose.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 27, 2020, 4:27 PM

Post #13 of 27 (379 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

Fine, I'd drill out center of an old spark plug if that difficult to get a real tester and lose it like the other one would have tested this one,


T


DIYMachWon
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Jun 27, 2020, 8:53 PM

Post #14 of 27 (366 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

I was able to get the compression tester. So, is there anything else I'm supposed to do other than pulling the fuel pump relay and ignition coil? Also what difference am I to expect if I'm unable to test with a warmed motor?


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 27, 2020, 9:17 PM

Post #15 of 27 (358 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

You'll get the idea warm or cold IMO the small squirt of oil wouldn't change very low compression much if
valve timing was the issue.
Post results then may suggest if that tester will also put air pressure back when each is at TDC see where air flow comes out!
That too can be created with a damn spark plug if you had to thread in a port to blow thru,


T



Hammer Time
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Jun 28, 2020, 3:47 AM

Post #16 of 27 (345 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

We are looking for a basic yes or no answer here so temp is not that important. It will either have a decent amount of compression or none at all.

Don't worry about putting any pressure back in or hollowing out spark plugs. It either has compression in all cylinders or it doesn't.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
User

Jun 28, 2020, 9:36 AM

Post #17 of 27 (334 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

So started the compression test. I removed both the fuel pump relay and unplugged the ignition coil. Removed all spark plugs. Was able to check the #1 cylinder only pressure was 60 psi but dropped to 35psi when I checked again. Went to cylinder #2 and when I went to crank were normally the crank is intermittent it turned continuous. Sounded almost like a large fan. I might be losing ground here. Shocked


Hammer Time
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Jun 28, 2020, 9:38 AM

Post #18 of 27 (330 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

Yep, that's what a broken timing belt sounds like.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
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Jun 28, 2020, 10:09 AM

Post #19 of 27 (322 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

I guess I'll tear into it to confirm. If this is the case I doubt this motor is a non-interference motor so it probably won't be worth it to fix considering the cars KBB running will likely fall into the $600- 800.


Hammer Time
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Jun 28, 2020, 10:13 AM

Post #20 of 27 (318 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

It is definitely an interference engine.

Try to pop the timing cover off and if you see anything but a super tight belt, the engine is gone.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
User

Jun 28, 2020, 12:19 PM

Post #21 of 27 (305 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

Well made it to the crankshaft bolt and of course I'm having difficulty with it. I kept the belt on as well as chalked the pully with a steel bar to keep it from moving and still can't get it to break free. Im certain this poor bar is going to give out before I do.


Hammer Time
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Jun 28, 2020, 12:21 PM

Post #22 of 27 (303 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

Why are you taking that out. Just remove the top cover and you will have all the view you need.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
User

Jun 28, 2020, 7:27 PM

Post #23 of 27 (276 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

I understand what you meant. I went at it like I was replacing the belt. The belt is still together but I'm not certain if what I'm seeing qualifies as "super tight". I'm trying to upload a couple of photos but I'm having one hell of a time.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 28, 2020, 7:32 PM

Post #24 of 27 (269 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In

You should be able to see if a pulley or a tensioner went bad. Put a wrench on the top pulley and see if you can move it back and forth at all without actually cranking the engine.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DIYMachWon
User

Jun 28, 2020, 7:53 PM

Post #25 of 27 (265 views)
Re: 2005 DODGE NEON SXT CRANKS BUT WON'T START. Sign In








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