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2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire


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campbell1987
User

Dec 11, 2016, 6:27 AM

Post #1 of 20 (1592 views)
2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Hello all, I have here my brother in laws 2003 1.2 Polo, It is shaking bad on idle due to what seems to be one cylinder not firing, The check engine light has come on so i scanned using my registered version of VCDS Lite, Here is the copy of the scan, Just wondering if someone with a bit more knowlege could look it over and tell me what is possibly causing the issue,

He thinks it is a catalytic convertor but i think its more likely to be spark related so have went ahead and bought a new coil for cylinder 2 and a new full set of plugs, Would just like to be a bit more sure before throwing any more money/parts at it, I also bought a laser thermometer from ebay to try test the cat that way to see if its bad, I think he mentioned it just passed emissions barely during the cars last NCT test, I am no expert by my guess was week spark caused the rich mix and left untreated this possibly damaged the cat over time,

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
Saturday, 10 December 2016, 17:41:04:727




Chassis Type: 9N - VW Polo
Scan: 01,02,03,08,09,15,17,19,25,37,44,45,46,56,76

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Controller: 03D 906 032 C
Component: 1,2l/2V SIMOS3 00HS2501
Coding: 00021
Shop #: WSC 00788
VCID: 1E4F5FAC89AF
WVWZZZ9NZ3Y232621 VWZ7Z0B6349108
3 Faults Found:
16804 - Catalyst System; Bank 1: Efficiency Below Threshold
P0420 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16556 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1: System Too Rich
P0172 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16686 - Cylinder 2: Misfire Detected
P0302 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 6Qx-937-049-B.LBL
Controller: 6Q1 937 049 C
Component: 00 BN-SG. 1S33
Coding: 25742
Shop #: WSC 00788
VCID: 3B09B6383A7D
2 Faults Found:
01598 - Drive Battery Voltage
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
00906 - Horn (H1)
28-10 - Short to Plus - Intermittent


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.LBL
Controller: 1C0 909 605 K
Component: 0L AIRBAG VW51 0P 0008
Coding: 12364
Shop #: WSC 00788
VCID: 2C2B8564CF13
1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 6Q0-920-xxx-17.LBL
Controller: 6Q0 920 900 Hu
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V15
Coding: 01431
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: BC0B3524BF73
WVWZZZ9NZ3Y232621 VWZ7Z0B6349108
1 Fault Found:
00562 - Sensor for Oil Level/Temperature (G266)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.LBL
Controller: 6N0 909 901
Component: 11 GATEWAY CAN 1S33
Coding: 00012
Shop #: WSC 00788
VCID: F093D114A3BB
No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: None
Controller: Bit teA dre ssu
Component: e 17 eingeben
VCID: CFD172E81EC5
No Faults Found
or DTCs not supported by controller
or a communication error ocurred


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: None
Controller: 6Q0 423 156 Q
Component: LenkhilfeTRW V250
Coding: 10140
Shop #: WSC 00788
VCID: 3D0DB8202469
No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 6Q0-959-433.LBL
Controller: 6Q0 959 433 H
Component: 1R Komfortgerát 0002
Coding: 00067
Shop #: WSC 00788
VCID: 40F3C1D4539B
No fault code found.


End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 11, 2016, 7:31 AM

Post #2 of 20 (1575 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

The converter problem didn't cause the misfire but the misfire may have caused the converter problem.
I think you are off to a good start with the coil and plugs. The rich code is a little concerning but clear the codes after changing the coil and plugs and see what comes back.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



campbell1987
User

Dec 11, 2016, 7:43 AM

Post #3 of 20 (1571 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In


In Reply To
The converter problem didn't cause the misfire but the misfire may have caused the converter problem.
I think you are off to a good start with the coil and plugs. The rich code is a little concerning but clear the codes after changing the coil and plugs and see what comes back.



Ok ill do that then post back with results,
might also be worth noting that i tried new o2 sensors a few months ago before the new misfire problem started a few days ago,


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 11, 2016, 7:49 AM

Post #4 of 20 (1561 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Poor running engines are what ruins 0/2 sensors and Catalytic Converters. They need clean exhaust to remain healthy.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



campbell1987
User

Dec 11, 2016, 2:42 PM

Post #5 of 20 (1538 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

This car has been very poorly cared for, Its either burning or leaking oil bad and has been drove when no oil showing on dipstick, Also previous owner (Bro in laws missus) doesnt know when plugs were last done or never serviced, Only fixed if it stopped working.. :-o


campbell1987
User

Dec 18, 2016, 4:39 PM

Post #6 of 20 (1427 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Ok so the engine is done, 0 bar on cylinder 2 so no wonder it isnt firing, cylinder 1 is at 10 bar and 3 is at 9 bar,

Guess this means scrap the car, Though it is still driving now and the longer he gets out of it the better,

Is there any additives that could imprve the engine slightly so he could get another few months from it so he has time to save for something else,

Is there a way to stop fuel supply to number 2 cylinder and would this help in any way, And could drilling a small hole in the cat help it run a bit better as now it sometimes almost wants to cut out,

I know the thing is dead but the longer he can get out of it at this stage the better,


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 18, 2016, 4:44 PM

Post #7 of 20 (1422 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

You can unplug the injector for that cylinder but that isn't going to change much at this point. the damage is already done. Nothing is going to make it run any better.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



campbell1987
User

Dec 19, 2016, 3:30 AM

Post #8 of 20 (1406 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Yeah i know damage is done mate, Im just thinkin if stoppin the fuel to number 2 could stop cat gettin any worse, I know its too little too late but i just wanted to try sort the thing as best i can for the guy without wasting any more cash on it,

Do you think a rebuild is a good idea or is this just a s**t engine i just need to bin


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 19, 2016, 5:12 AM

Post #9 of 20 (1394 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

I wouldn't attempt to rebuild it. The best way to repair it is to either just find a good used engine or purchase a remanufactured long block.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



campbell1987
User

Dec 19, 2016, 11:40 AM

Post #10 of 20 (1381 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In


In Reply To
I wouldn't attempt to rebuild it. The best way to repair it is to either just find a good used engine or purchase a remanufactured long block.



Sorry man im no mechanic, Where can i find a remanufactured long block and roughly what do they cost?

Also if he does go down the line of a new engine then is it possible to put a more reliable one in it,


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

Dec 19, 2016, 11:43 AM

Post #11 of 20 (1376 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

No, you can only replace the engine with the exact same one. You can buy remanufactured long blocks in any number of places. Usually you rely on the shop that is going o fix it to price and purchase it as part of the job.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



campbell1987
User

Dec 19, 2016, 12:43 PM

Post #12 of 20 (1367 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Ok well i was thinking of doing the work myself, But as said before i am no mechanic, Though i do like fixing cars and have successfully changed the DMF, clutch, gearbox and drive shafts in my 2005 2.2DCi Primera, I was wondering how much more difficult would it be to swap out one of these little engines, I have an engine crane and think i have all the tools needed unless there are any specialty tools required for the job,


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

Dec 19, 2016, 1:33 PM

Post #13 of 20 (1361 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

There is a lot more to it than just swapping out engine. A long block is a stripped down block with a head on it. You would have to transfer all the external parts like manifolds, sensors all accessory brackets and accessories in a way that nothing leaks when you're done. You will probably have to time the valves also.

It's a process that you can't make any mistakes doing.
You also have to package up the old engine to return it to the company as a core which will involve shipping.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



campbell1987
User

Dec 19, 2016, 3:20 PM

Post #14 of 20 (1353 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In


In Reply To
There is a lot more to it than just swapping out engine. A long block is a stripped down block with a head on it. You would have to transfer all the external parts like manifolds, sensors all accessory brackets and accessories in a way that nothing leaks when you're done. You will probably have to time the valves also.

It's a process that you can't make any mistakes doing.
You also have to package up the old engine to return it to the company as a core which will involve shipping.



Ive found a replacement engine with 54k miles on it, guy said he'd do it for 200 and stand over it for a month if new timing belt was fitted, He said i can call first and do a compression test on it as starter motor is still there for it, I just need to bring battery and test kit, Sounds like a safe bet to me, What readings would be acceptable if i do go look at it,

Am i mad even thinkin about this or is it possible, I do most work on my own car and am not affraid of a challenge but i will not do anything without first fully checking out first how to do it properly,


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 19, 2016, 3:27 PM

Post #15 of 20 (1347 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

A compression test will give you an idea if the engine is dead right now but it won't tell you much about the longevity of it. The mileage on the motor and how clean the inside is would be far more important factors.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 19, 2016, 3:45 PM

Post #16 of 20 (1342 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Are you saying you can have a whole engine replaced with 200 units of British pounds? That's today = 248$ in USD. That doesn't add up to me. Labor only or a used engine cost?


Never mind mechanical suggestions that's plain not making any sense or realistic. Where have I gone wrong?


T
PS: This is the money exchange site I use to the day > http://www.xe.com/currency/usd-us-dollar



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Dec 19, 2016, 3:49 PM)


campbell1987
User

Dec 19, 2016, 5:05 PM

Post #17 of 20 (1328 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Read again..... 200 quid for a used engine, From a breaker, I was thinking of trying to fit it myself,


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 20, 2016, 1:54 AM

Post #18 of 20 (1316 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

"quid" is listed as just slang for a British pound as found on the web said this............


Quid may refer to:


***********************************


Replacing an engine used or a long block already mentioned is NOT a "do it yourself" job for most people. If you or people do take on such involved tasks usually you do it WITH a person who is a professional or under their supervision. Mistakes can put you back to worse off than you were before the attempt,


T



campbell1987
User

Dec 20, 2016, 6:12 AM

Post #19 of 20 (1304 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In


In Reply To
"quid" is listed as just slang for a British pound as found on the web said this............


Quid may refer to:


***********************************


Replacing an engine used or a long block already mentioned is NOT a "do it yourself" job for most people. If you or people do take on such involved tasks usually you do it WITH a person who is a professional or under their supervision. Mistakes can put you back to worse off than you were before the attempt,


T



Well done sir, you just learned somethin new,

Also i don't think I am most people,

The way i see it now the car is scrap, A replacement used engine with low milage is not too expensive and i think if i got the car to my garage i could do it over a couple of days and learn a few things along the way, I have a friend who is a mechanic who works a 3 minute walk from my house and i could ask for his help if i need it but i thought my engine crane would do all the heavy lifting for me plus I have extra hands at home too if i need any help, As i said before I done the 6 speed gearbox on my 2005 2.2DCi Primera alone with no trouble and its still driving good after 5,000 miles, Im no mechanic but not totally inexperienced, I have worked on a few cars and buy and sell the odd one, Just here askin some advice on weather to repair/replace it and maybe a few pointers on what to do/look out for when doing it, not lookin someone to critisize me saying i can't do it, Sure it'll be tricky maybe but nothin is impossible and ill learn somethin along the way.. ;-)


(This post was edited by campbell1987 on Dec 20, 2016, 6:14 AM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 20, 2016, 7:39 AM

Post #20 of 20 (1298 views)
Re: 2003 VW Polo 1.2 9N Misfire Sign In

Just take extra care in cleaning and sealing gasket surfaces.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 20, 2016, 7:40 AM)






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