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2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank


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JonathanB
Novice

Feb 11, 2012, 7:19 PM

Post #1 of 10 (7166 views)
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2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank Sign In

Last week my 2002 Neon would not start. I have a good battery, Cables and connections. All fuses OK. All lights and instrument panel are OK. Key switch sends 12V to the start relay. No ground at the start relay. I can jump out the relay and the car will crank but not start. According to my wiring diagram the ground for the start relay comes from the PCM. I attached a code reader to the PCM and there are no codes. Any help would be appreciated.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Feb 11, 2012, 7:45 PM

Post #2 of 10 (7147 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

You most likely have a security system problem. If it fails six times in a row, it locks out the starter until the problem is corrected.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



re-tired
Veteran / Moderator


Feb 11, 2012, 7:48 PM

Post #3 of 10 (7141 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

When you jumped relay did you have the key in the run position?


LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH


JonathanB
Novice

Feb 11, 2012, 7:49 PM

Post #4 of 10 (7140 views)
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Yes key was in the run position. Fuel pump runs.


JonathanB
Novice

Feb 11, 2012, 7:50 PM

Post #5 of 10 (7139 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

What is a security system problem?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Feb 11, 2012, 7:53 PM

Post #6 of 10 (7135 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

The car has an immobilizer system that is probably activated




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



JonathanB
Novice

Feb 11, 2012, 7:56 PM

Post #7 of 10 (7130 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

OK this is still above me. In short what do i need to do to start and drive my car?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Feb 11, 2012, 7:58 PM

Post #8 of 10 (7126 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

Have it towed to the dealer.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



JonathanB
Novice

Feb 11, 2012, 8:08 PM

Post #9 of 10 (7104 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

OK after doing some research I now understand what your talking about. and I also understand your answers perfactly I will call a dealer and get this problem resolved. Thank You.

p.s. it is my car.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Feb 11, 2012, 8:10 PM

Post #10 of 10 (7102 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank [In reply to] Sign In

Here, do some reading in the meantime.




SENTRY KEY IMMOBILIZER SYSTEM
The Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS) is available as a factory-installed option on this vehicle. It is designed to provide passive protection against unauthorized vehicle use by disabling the engine, after two (2) seconds of running, whenever an invalid key is used to start the vehicle. The SKIS is active whenever the ignition is ON and does not require any customer intervention.

The primary components of the system are:
  • Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM)
  • Sentry Key (ignition key with a transponder molded into the head)
  • indicator light
  • Powertrain Control Module (PCM) .

The SKIM is mounted to the steering column with the molded, integral antenna mounted on the light halo surrounding the ignition lock cylinder. The indicator light is located in the instrument cluster.

The SKIS includes keys from the factory which are pre-programmed. Each SKIM will recognize a maximum of eight Sentry Keys. If the customer would like to own additional keys other than those provided with the vehicle, they can be purchased from any authorized dealer. These keys must be programmed to the SKIM on the vehicle in order for the system to recognize them as valid keys. This can be done by the dealer with a DRB III scan tool or by a customer if this feature is available in their market and they have two (2) valid keys already available to them. The SKIS performs a self-test each time the ignition switch is turned to the ON position and will store Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) if a system malfunction is detected. The DTC's can be retrieved using a DRB III scan tool. The SKIS can be diagnosed using the proper Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures.

When the ignition switch is turned on, the SKIM interrogates the ignition key. If the ignition key is Valid or Invalid, the SKIM sends a PCI Bus message to the PCM indicating ignition key status. Upon receiving this message the PCM will terminate engine operation, or allow the engine to continue to operate.

SENTRY KEY IMMOBILIZER SYSTEM (SKIS) OPERATION
When ignition power is supplied to the SKIM, the SKIM performs an internal self-test. After the self-test is completed, the SKIM energizes the antenna (this activates the transponder chip) and sends a challenge to the transponder chip. The transponder chip responds to the challenge by generating an encrypted response message using the following:

Secret Key - This is an electronically stored value (identification number) that is unique to each SKIS. The secret key is stored in the SKIM, PCM and all ignition key transponders.

Challenge - This is a random number that is generated by the SKIM at each ignition key cycle.

The secret key and challenge are the two variables used in the algorithm that produces the encrypted response message. The transponder uses the crypto algorithm to receive, decode and respond to the message sent by the SKIM. After responding to the coded message, the transponder sends a transponder I.D. message to the SKIM. The SKIM compares the transponder I.D. to the available valid key codes in the SKIM memory (8 key maximum at any one time). After validating the key ignition the SKIM sends a PCI Bus message called a Seed Request to the engine controller then waits for a PCM response. If the PCM does not respond, the SKIM will send the seed request again. After three failed attempts the SKIM will stop sending the seed request and store a trouble code. If the PCM sends a seed response, the SKIM sends a valid/invalid key message to the PCM. This is an encrypted message that is generated using the following:

VIN - Vehicle Identification Number

Seed - This is a random number that is generated by the PCM at each ignition key cycle.

The VIN and seed are the two variables used in the rolling code algorithm that encrypts the valid/ invalid key message. The PCM uses the rolling code algorithm to receive, decode and respond to the valid/invalid key message sent by the SKIM. After sending the valid/invalid key message the SKIM waits 3.5 seconds for a PCM status message from the PCM. If the PCM does not respond with a valid key message to the SKIM, a fault is detected and a trouble code is stored.

The SKIS incorporates a VTSS LED located on the instrument panel upper cover. The LED receives switched ignition voltage and is hardwired to the body control module. The LED is actuated when the SKIM sends a PCI Bus message to the body controller requesting the LED on. The body controller then provides the ground for the LED.

The SKIM will request VTSS LED operation for the following:
  • bulb checks at ignition on
  • to alert the vehicle operator to a SKIS malfunction
  • customer key programming mode

For all faults except transponder faults and VTSS LED remains on steady. In the event of a transponder fault the LED flashes at a rate of 1 Hz (once per second). If a fault is present the LED will remain on or flashing for the complete ignition cycle. If a fault is stored in SKIM memory which prevents the system from operating properly, the PCM will allow the engine to start and run (for 2 seconds ) up to six times. After the sixth attempt, the PCM disables the starter relay until the fault is corrected.

SKIS INDICATOR LAMP
The Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS) uses an indicator light to convey information on the status of the system to the customer. This light is shared with the Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS). The light is located in the instrument cluster and is shared with the Vehicle Theft Security System. The indicator light is controlled by the instrument cluster based upon messages it receives from the Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM) on the PCI bus.

The SKIM sends messages to the instrument cluster to turn the light ON for three (3) seconds when the ignition switch is turned to the ON position as a power-up test. After completion of the power-up test, the SKIM sends a message on the PCI bus to keep the light OFF for a duration of one second . Then, the SKIM sends messages to the instrument cluster to operate the light based upon the results of the SKIS self tests. The light may be actuated in two possible ways, flashing or on solid. If the light comes ON and stays ON solid after a power-up test, this indicates that the SKIM has detected a system malfunction. If the SKIM detects an invalid key when the ignition switch is moved to the ON position, it sends a message on the PCI bus to flash the light. The SKIM can also send a message to flash the light and generate a single audible chime at the same time. These two events occurring simultaneously indicate that the SKIS has been placed into the "Customer Learn" mode. Refer to Electrical, Vehicle Theft Security, Transponder Key, Standard Procedure - Sentry Key Immobilizer System Transponder programming for more information on the "Customer Learn" mode. If the light comes ON and stays ON after the power-up test, diagnosis of the SKIS should be performed using a DRB III scan tool and the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures. The light is not a serviceable component.

Sentry Key Immobilizer Transponder


TRANSPONDER KEY
The Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS) uses a transponder chip that is integral to each ignition key to communicate with the Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM). Ignition keys are supplied with the vehicle when it is shipped from the factory The transponder chip is undermolded within the head of the key. This undermold is hidden beneath an overmolded rubber cap.

Each Sentry Key has a unique transponder identification code permanently programmed into it by the manufacturer. Likewise, the SKIM has a unique "Secret Key" code programmed into it by the manufacturer as well. When a Sentry Key is programmed into the memory of the SKIM, the SKIM stores the transponder identification code from the Sentry Key, and the Sentry Key learns the "Secret Key" code from the SKIM. Once the Sentry Key learns the "Secret Key" code of the SKIM, it is also permanently programmed into the transponder's memory. Therefore, blank keys for the SKIS must be programmed by the SKIM in addition to being cut to match the mechanical coding of the ignition lock cylinder. Refer to Electrical, Vehicle Theft Security Transponder Key, Standard Procedure - Transponder Programming.

The Sentry Key's transponder is within the range of the SKIM's transceiver antenna ring when it is inserted into the ignition lock cylinder. When the ignition switch is turned to the ON position, the SKIM communicates with the Sentry Key via a Radio Frequency (RF) signal. The SKIM determines if a valid key is present based on the information it receives from the Sentry Key. If a valid key is detected, that fact is communicated to the PCM via the PCI bus and the vehicle is allowed to continue running. If an invalid key is received by the PCM or no status at all is communicated, the vehicle will stall after two (2) seconds of running. The indicator light will be flashing at this point. The Sentry Key's transponder can not be repaired. If it is faulty or damaged, it must be replaced.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.





2002 Dodge Neon Will not Crank


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