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1997 cavalier z24


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tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 3:30 PM

Post #1 of 23 (1641 views)
1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I have a 1997 Chevy cavalier z24 (2.4 l) dohc, and I noticed there was oil leaking from the camshaft towers, because several of the bolts that hold the towers to the head were striped out, so I tap and die new threads and put new bolts, and doing this job I had to take the timing component out I'm 90% sure I put it back in time right now the problem is, the car runs but the coil for cyl. #1 and #4 is getting no spark however cyl. #2 and #3 are getting spark. I swapped the coils around and found the coils work I replaced the ignition control module and still no fire I replaced the camshaft position sensor and still no fire in compleatly taped out of ideas help!!!


kev2
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Feb 24, 2014, 3:47 PM

Post #2 of 23 (1632 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

  a start - what codes are you getting from the PCM?
have 12v at both coils?


tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 3:51 PM

Post #3 of 23 (1631 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I haven't had it read yet but I'm sure its going to say miss in cylinder 1 & 4 and if its out of time obd isn't going to read that


kev2
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Feb 24, 2014, 4:04 PM

Post #4 of 23 (1620 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

check the 1-4 coil brn wire that is the 12v...
carbon tracking is an issue with the plastic cover -
A noid light would help ck if signal wire is pulsing - noid bridged brn to wht as someone cranks it should flash

there could be codes that will help diagnose ie a CKP issue or a signal wire issue

If the cam is out of time there will be a code for correlation - CKP to CMP


tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 4:21 PM

Post #5 of 23 (1617 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I've been told that the coil housing (white cover) can go bad. But i removed that and tested each coil by swapping them out like I said before without the housing and one works one doesn't.


tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 4:27 PM

Post #6 of 23 (1615 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I'm leaning more towards timing


tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 4:48 PM

Post #7 of 23 (1611 views)
post icon Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

And also if the camshaft timing is off I don't see why it would fire in 2 cylinders and not in the other 2 and the car was running a week ago just fine and now its not so is it possible that carbon tracking can affect it that fast, and if so what would it damage. Also where does the crankshaft position sensor get its signal from, the crank itself or something else in the crankcase?


Hammer Time
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Feb 24, 2014, 5:07 PM

Post #8 of 23 (1600 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

You're going to have to scope the trigger wires coming out of the ignition module. The ignition doesn't take any signals from the Cam sensor, only the Crank sensor.






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tomtoller69
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Feb 24, 2014, 5:53 PM

Post #9 of 23 (1593 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I just realized that its possible that when I set the time I didn't have the crank on the compression stroke, so could that cause it not to fire?


Hammer Time
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Feb 24, 2014, 5:56 PM

Post #10 of 23 (1592 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

No, that doesn't even matter. That only matters when mating a distributor to a camshaft which you are not doing. This problem has nothing to do with your camshaft. It is strictly electrical.
This ignition system fires on both compression and exhaust strokes.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Feb 24, 2014, 6:00 PM)


tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 6:07 PM

Post #11 of 23 (1588 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I get that its not the camshaft, but could the ckp


Hammer Time
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Feb 24, 2014, 6:10 PM

Post #12 of 23 (1587 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

No, it's not likely that either if 2 cylinders are working correctly. It has to be in the ignition module, coils or related wiring, assuming you have the symptoms correct.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 6:18 PM

Post #13 of 23 (1585 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

So no matter the position of the crank or cams that computer should fire correct?


Hammer Time
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Feb 24, 2014, 6:20 PM

Post #14 of 23 (1584 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

The computer doesn't control spark, the ignition module does by using a reference signal from the crank sensor. The signal is either present or it isn't and if 2 cylinders work, the signal has to be present so the ignition module takes over from there.
Like I said in the first post, you need to scope the signal from the module to the coils.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Feb 24, 2014, 6:21 PM)


Discretesignals
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Feb 24, 2014, 6:33 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1580 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

The PCM tells the ICM when and which coils to fire based off the 7x signal is gets from the ICM. There is no bypass like you would find on an EST ignition system. If the PCM doesn't command the ICM, the coils won't fire.





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tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 6:43 PM

Post #16 of 23 (1576 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

Right reference signals from the crank but is it possible that the crank being on the wrong stroke could it be getting the signal to late?


Hammer Time
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Feb 24, 2014, 6:45 PM

Post #17 of 23 (1574 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I told you already. there is no such thing as a wrong stroke.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



tomtoller69
User

Feb 24, 2014, 6:55 PM

Post #18 of 23 (1572 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

Ok so its not timing, what's the worst case scenario then


kev2
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Feb 25, 2014, 7:50 AM

Post #19 of 23 (1557 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

 All academic, the issue is that coil 1&4 is not firing, the coil tested good when swapped -
you need to that confirm wiring is good...
is there 12v to 1,4 coil? a test light I even gave you the color...
is the signal circuit pulsing? A noid light ....

It tool more time to type this than doing the tests?
those answers will lead to next test... its a 1-2-3 process


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 25, 2014, 8:18 AM

Post #20 of 23 (1555 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

I gave up since he's not listening.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



tomtoller69
User

Feb 27, 2014, 5:27 AM

Post #21 of 23 (1532 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

Thanks guys for all the advice, the car is running proper, and it so happens it wasn't timing, or electrical. The car didn't run long enough to recalibrate, being because its still leaking oil


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 27, 2014, 5:30 AM

Post #22 of 23 (1530 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

Recalibrate?

There is no such calibration associated with ignition firing.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 27, 2014, 5:35 AM

Post #23 of 23 (1528 views)
Re: 1997 cavalier z24 Sign In

Usually when a layman uses that word, they don't know what is going on and is just pulling an answer out their rear end or they forgot to do something stupid and too ashamed to admit it...LOL





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.






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