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1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem


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Silveradoandcamry
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Jun 27, 2017, 11:02 PM

Post #1 of 25 (1145 views)
1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

1996 chevy lumina V6
Cars engine will crank but not start , flashing security light
And oil light on. Checked ignition cylinder and can't see any broken wires .
We think the problem is the security system and the VATS key.
Tried 2 keys , same thing with both . Tried the "relearn" method multiple
Times . I want to take the security system out and put in resistors of the
Same value . The problem is , I do not have a meter to read that small of ohms (2k setting) . Is there a Different way to find the resistance value in the key ? Is there a way to find out the key code #(to look up resistance value) ? I understand there are 15 different ones . Or does someone happen to know the resistor value needed in this car ? Thank you .


Sidom
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Jun 27, 2017, 11:49 PM

Post #2 of 25 (1134 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

It sounds like an anti-theft problem. The 10 minute relearn won't work on that system. That is for the newer ones with no resistor in the key....I've never had much luck finding the right resistor for those. Most of the time the problem is the wires break in the ign cyl...On all the ones I've done, I've just used the resistor in the key and soldered it into the harness....I just cut the harness, tape the wires to resistor in the key and if the car starts...That means the resistor is good, I cut the key down & solder it into the harness.......Resistors do go bad, but I've done 10 or 12 of these and haven't had a bad resistor yet....


You said you have 2 keys....Make sure the one you don't cut works,,,once it's cut, there's no making another key cheaply


(This post was edited by Sidom on Jun 27, 2017, 11:51 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 28, 2017, 12:56 AM

Post #3 of 25 (1128 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

A or B you'll need a DVOM and a place to acquire the resistor then install it. This car now pushing 22 years old most people just using the vehicle this feature is more of a problem than any possible benefit.


You'll need to find the resistor one of the 15 to match and wire in so then use $2US cut keys without or disable the vehicle with a toggle switch you choose to hide.


YOU need to be good at a nice solder and seal job of wire and the matching resistor let you figure out where to get it.


Couple hours and you'd be in biz.


Hey - it would be imprudent for techs to just spit out how to defeat systems to prevent this car from running as originally intended but it's also now dangerous IMO if you the rightful owner can't because it failed! Rock and hard place to advise or describe how on this site open web so decline to for now.


If another spells it out for this exact vehicle fine I wont for now. It would take the time to do and not cause harm.


DVOM can be had that's fine but junk cheap at Harbor Freight just an example place. BTW - have 2 free ones from there in person. Suggest if you seek that cheap be able to test the device right there as I'm running 50% failure of them right away!
BTW - Your oil and other or warning lights are just in "bulb check" mode probably not a warning until engine is actually running,


T



Hammer Time
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Jun 28, 2017, 5:10 AM

Post #4 of 25 (1108 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Something doesn't add up here. The Passkey II system disables the starter when triggered so if your engine is cranking, something else is wrong.

Your only way to bypass the key reader is with an accurate Ohmeter. If you have tried 2 keys, I think you can eliminate the key as the issue. I've never even seen one bad resister in those, never mind 2 in the same car.



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Silveradoandcamry
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Jul 1, 2017, 9:04 PM

Post #5 of 25 (1069 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Okay so the security system has been bypassed by sodering a working key into the system .

Apparently there was another problem . I'm not hearing the fuel pump turn on or prime at all . Checked for power at the fuel pump and that's all good . Even tried chAnging fuel pump . New fuel pump in new sock .. still not priming or turning on . No fuel pressure also . Checked all fuses and relays , those are all good . I do not believe the ignition switch is the problem , as I inspected it and saw no broken wires or anything , also because car is cranking but not starting .

What else could it be ? Could this be a faulty ecu ?

Thanks


Hammer Time
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Jul 2, 2017, 5:43 AM

Post #6 of 25 (1045 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

You say you checked for power at the fuel pump. Are you sure it's getting all the way to the pump? What about the ground fro the pump?

They have a known problem with the pump connectors overheating and building up resistance.

If you're sure you have power and ground at the pump, then obviously, your problem is inside the tank.



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Sidom
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Jul 2, 2017, 9:46 AM

Post #7 of 25 (1034 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

How are you checking for power??

A quick check I've seen some do....Get a test light(old school with a bulb, no LEDs)...probe the power wire....KOEO, there should be power for 2 seconds and then no power......Take the ground clip off the frame, get a paper clip/cotter pin, clip on to it and put the pin in the ground terminal of the connector and probe the power terminal again....KOEO you should have 2 second power...If you don't, you have a bad ground wire....you could double check your set up by probing the ground for the sending unit (I'm assuming the gas gauge works?), there should be 2 seconds of power.....

I don't have a diagram handy but find out the right wires and colors....The ground wire should be black but it will be the larger gauge black wire.....The power wire might be purple???...


Hammer Time
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Jul 2, 2017, 10:39 AM

Post #8 of 25 (1029 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

The power wire is gray and the ground is black.





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Silveradoandcamry
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Jul 4, 2017, 12:40 PM

Post #9 of 25 (994 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Checked the ground wire to the pump and that's good .
Checked power at pump with a light and a meter also , I couldn't get
An accurate reading it was fluctuating . Did find the oil pressure switch was hanging on by a thread . Fixed thAt and replaced oil pressure switch , no difference .


Hammer Time
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Jul 4, 2017, 12:52 PM

Post #10 of 25 (986 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

You need some better answers on your testing. Either you have sufficient power on the gray wire or you don't. Check it both plugged in and unplugged.



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Sidom
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Jul 4, 2017, 1:00 PM

Post #11 of 25 (972 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

OK....It would help if you told us how you tested the grounds and powers......I'm not sure what you mean by fluctuating readings......On the grey wire, when you turn the key to the on position, there should be a constant 12v for 2 seconds and then the power will shut off......You need a helper to run this test.... If you are using a test light....it should light up, stay lite and then turn out


Silveradoandcamry
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Jul 15, 2017, 2:21 PM

Post #12 of 25 (931 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Rechecked the wires with the light tester , the grey wire does not have power . The pink wire has power . Where does the ground wire lead to ??


Silveradoandcamry
User

Jul 15, 2017, 2:41 PM

Post #13 of 25 (927 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

The dark grey wire leading from the computer by the relay , has no power . But the fuse and relay are good . I hear the relay clicking.


Silveradoandcamry
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Jul 15, 2017, 2:45 PM

Post #14 of 25 (921 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

I should also mention that there was some power( couldn't get a reading it was flucating) coming from the pump but I just replaced the computer(and got it flashed) and no there is nothing


Hammer Time
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Jul 15, 2017, 6:06 PM

Post #15 of 25 (911 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

You DO realize that it only powers for 2 seconds when the key is first turned on.



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Silveradoandcamry
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Jul 16, 2017, 9:03 PM

Post #16 of 25 (894 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Yes .

In Reply To


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 17, 2017, 5:31 AM

Post #17 of 25 (883 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Test for power at pin #85 of the relay when the key is first turned on. (2 second pulse)



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Silveradoandcamry
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Jul 22, 2017, 11:08 AM

Post #18 of 25 (794 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Yes I get power for 2 seconds there . I do not get power for the fuel pump


Silveradoandcamry
User

Jul 22, 2017, 11:12 AM

Post #19 of 25 (785 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Am I supposed to get power to the oil pressure switch ? I checked for oil pressure and that's good but seems like the viscosity of it is off . Going to change that and see if there's a difference . Also when I took the oil pressure switch off it sounded more like it was wanting to start ?


Hammer Time
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Jul 22, 2017, 11:13 AM

Post #20 of 25 (783 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

OK, that means the PCM is doing it's job.

Now jump pins #30 and #87 and see if the pump gets powered.

If not. make sure you have power at pin #87



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Hammer Time
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Jul 22, 2017, 11:15 AM

Post #21 of 25 (781 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

The oil pressure switch is not even part of the circuit on this car.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 25, 2017, 2:11 PM

Post #22 of 25 (743 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

This from OP not me. I can't post the new thread here so these words are NOT mine. I was contacted that this problem continues, Tom


*****************************************************************************
There's no power going to the fuel pump , tested the gray wire and I do not get anything . Tested the relay and that gets power for 2seconds and I hear it clicking . Changed the oil pressure switch and plug for it after I found it hanging by a thread . Security light and oil pressure light were going on and off before it broke down . I have good oil pressure . When I try to start it it turns over but does not start . If I spray carb cleaner it starts up for a couple seconds and then dies . Also changed the fuel pump and sock , I found no burned wires.


Hammer Time
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Jul 25, 2017, 2:27 PM

Post #23 of 25 (739 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Are you not reading our replies. The oil pressure switch has nothing to do with the fuel pump.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Silveradoandcamry
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Jul 25, 2017, 5:46 PM

Post #24 of 25 (727 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Just listing everything I found wrong and fixed .


Sidom
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Jul 25, 2017, 6:26 PM

Post #25 of 25 (717 views)
Re: 1996 chevy lumina VATS key security system problem Sign In

Ok.....Going off all the info you posted.....Sounds you found the problem area....

This thread is getting long so I'll recap a bit, correct me if i'm wrong....

You check the gray wire at the pump...no power.... Black wire @ the pump has a good ground.... The fuel pump relay is getting power for 2 seconds...(I'm assuming you already swapped relays with a known good one)

The relay has 4 terminal.....#87 should have 12v #85 should have 12v for 2 seconds when the key is turned on....#86 should have a good ground....... #30 is the wire going to the pump......With the pump hooked up....It should show as a complete circuit.....If you safely jump #87 to #30.....this would make the pump run continuously ........ If not......The is an open in that wire from that socket back to the pump.....

The only thing I'm not sure of, is how you checked for power at the connector at the pump.....test light? volt meter? etc...... I've seen guys use a test light back there,,,,which is fine.....but when then hook the light clip to a ground back there.....They don't get a good connection and think the have no power.........When ever using a test light....once you clip on to a ground source....you always touch some working power source to make sure you have a good ground and the test light (or meter) works...

If all you info is accurate......It sounds like you have a bad wire going to the pump......


(This post was edited by Sidom on Jul 25, 2017, 6:28 PM)






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