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Scrapmetalman
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Feb 17, 2014, 6:37 PM
Post #1 of 14
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1995 Saturn shaking
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I have an 1995 Saturn with the sohc 1.9l engine and automatic transmission and 204000 km(126000 miles). Something strange started some time ago. It shakes like hell untill it get warmed up in cold weather. In park or driving. Above 35-40 degrees F. it's ok but below that, the colder it is, more it will shake. Once it gets warm it runs smooth. Starting it below zero it's almost scaring!
It may sounds funny how I will descibe it, but it really does feel like that is happening: It acts as if the transmission fluid is getting so thick in cold weather that it will not spread evenly in the torque converter untill it gets warmed up... I've replaced the engine mounts. It helped a little bit. Then I drained the transmission fluid while it was still hot, even runned the engine for a few seconds to make sure the converter gets empty. Fluid change helped get it shift smoother but didn't help for shaking... Where should I look next?
I forgot to mention that it drives and shifts normally even if shaking
(This post was edited by Scrapmetalman on Feb 17, 2014, 6:47 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2014, 4:23 AM
Post #2 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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? Seem more like ONE cylinder is unhappy when cold is all it takes to make everything feel like crap or a no start if cold enough.
OBDI may or may not help much but check anyway. Look at plugs to see if one is off color/condition from the others is telling which cylinder to pay attention to why if so. Plug, wire, fuel, compression if just one.
If it is truly doing this in Park I doubt trans has anything to do with it,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2014, 7:31 AM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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The first step is to take a compression test to find out if the engine is structurally healthy. Then take a hard look at the condition of the plugs wires and coils.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Scrapmetalman
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Feb 18, 2014, 8:12 AM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Tanks for the advices. I didn't mention that the plugs and wires are only a couple of months old, as well as the battery. I always look at old plugs when replacing them and nothing seemed abnormal about them. It's something I keep in good shape to make sure I won't have trouble to start it on cold mornings. -30c (-20F) is not unusual up here, espacially this winter! I must also say that it starts right up even at those temperatures, doesn't misfires and there is no noticable lack of power and no knocking noise of any kind. It doesn't sound like a engine running with a dead cylinder... Only shaking that gradually disapear as temp gauge rises.
I'll take a closer look at coils as suggested, and check compression. I'll let you know when it's done.
Could oil pressure have something to do with it? I mean if one cylinder (or main journal) has partially blocked oil passage it would not get enough oil when it's cold and thicker...
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2014, 9:29 AM
Post #5 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Oil: @ - (minus 20F) it's chilly enough that it will matter that correct oil is used and has been maintained right along. If oil pressure doesn't build up in a couple seconds I would think it would be noisy AND not run smoothly likely.
Temps like that brings out the wear status of your engine upon initial start up you notice hopefully not long and all is fine in short time -- several seconds is enough.
Even plugs that look normal is a good thing so far for just that. The shaking is then probably random. It's 19ish years old so if correct oil for that temp range is in use next is overall wear IMO as HT mentioned.
?? Sometimes synthetic oil does really tolerate and behave noticeably better for the extremes. It's all I'll use. Not quite as cold as you but close enough inland Massachusetts and no problems widespread noted but weak old and worn things can take their last breath if lack of oil pressure doesn't build up fast enough it's killing itself,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2014, 9:47 AM
Post #6 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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What do you mean "it doesn't misfire". That's what this whole thread is about, misfiring when cold. If the engine is shaking, it is misfiring.
Just because the plugs aren't old doesn't mean they aren't the problem, in fact it may make it even more likely if one got cracked during installation.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Scrapmetalman
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Feb 18, 2014, 11:03 AM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Ok, I mean it doesn't sound like misfiring. I've had another saturn 1.9L 4 cylinder running on 3 before and it didn't shake like that! It was hard to start, had no power and you can clearly hear it run erradically. Wich is not the case right now. I understand that symptoms can be different, but how come there would be no lack of power with a dead cylinder? And how outside temperature can affect the intensity of the shaking?... And when it warms up, the shaking gradually gets less noticeable (but shakes at steady pace) until it completely disapears at normal running temp. Not as if a cylinder suddenly comes back to life...
Assuming misfiring actually occurs, then could it be caused by a cylinder having no or very low compression (or fuel?) when cold and the compression (or fuel) slowly rises as it gets warm? It doesn't smoke and uses very little oil. Doesn't seem to get fuel in the oil through a dead cylinder neither...
Anyways, thank you all for your help! When the wife comes back from work with it tonite I'll check the compression.
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Scrapmetalman
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Feb 18, 2014, 4:16 PM
Post #8 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Ok I just did a compression test. Cylinder 1, 2 and 4 are in the 180-190 range. Number 3 was at 165, got up to 195 with a few drops of oil in the plug hole.
About the plugs now, they're almost new and the insulator has a very slight tan color, except for the number 1 which still have a significantly whiter insulator.
I took a look at the coil pack. The plastic base is dried out and cracked in one corner. I'll get a new one, it won't hurt anyways and I'll let you know if it cures the shaking!
Thanks
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2014, 4:23 PM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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That extremely white plug could be telling a story. You could have a partially fouled fuel injector that causes a miss when cold due to the demand for more fuel when cold.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Scrapmetalman
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Feb 18, 2014, 4:48 PM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Thank you I will check that too.
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Scrapmetalman
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Mar 16, 2014, 5:08 PM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Ok the car runs smooth now! Here's what I did:
I've took the injectors off and cleaned them (I know you would recommend to have a professional shop doing it but I gave it a try by myself anyways..). It helped but didn't completely cure the problem. Then I replaced the coils, since the plastic case was cracked on one of them. And now the car runs smooth, got more power and starts even better on cold mornings.
Thanks a lot guys!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 16, 2014, 6:43 PM
Post #12 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Cleaning the outside of an injector doesn't do a thing. It's the internals that get gummed up.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Scrapmetalman
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Mar 16, 2014, 7:15 PM
Post #13 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Yeah I know! I used some rubber hose, compressed air and a battery to get the some throttle body cleaner through them.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 17, 2014, 2:26 AM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: 1995 Saturn shaking
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Interesting technique....................
Were you able to observe the quality of the spray pattern?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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