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1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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psamp48
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Dec 6, 2009, 8:43 PM
Post #1 of 21
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1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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I have a 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1, 116000 kilometers. I just bought it from a fellow who started to tear the top end of the engine apart because he was told that it had a blown head gasket. He had just bought it from the original owner. When I examined the car, he had left all of the front rocker arm nuts loose, which made it run on only the 3 rear cylinders. However, the fuel iunjectors kept filling the cylinders, which were full of gas when I pulled the spark plugs. Anyway, I tested the cooling system, held 16 PSI, no water in oil (but there was gasoline), coolant had been drained, but was quite gooey in the overflow tank. It appears that someone replaced the lower intake manifold recently as well, the fellow I got it from wouldn't tell me much. I repaired the rockers, replaced the thermostat for good measure and filled the cooling sytem and changed the oil. Here's what it does.
1) Starts a little hard when cold, stalls at low RPM for a few seconds.
2) Seems to run fine, a little hesitation when cold.
3) Check engine light comes on after about five seconds and engine seems to slow a bit when this happens, although it isn't on at initial start-up every time.
4) I can't read the code, as there is only 1 pin on the top row of the socket, (No A-B combo to ground).
5) Cooling fans both stay on all of the time( I removed one of the relays, as it is below freezing this time of year)
6) Car runs hot while driving, about 100 degrees Celsius. Good heat inside car, although passenger side blows cold all of the time. This appears to be a problem with the dual zone contol.
7) Other than above, the car runs and drives fine, but I am concerned that when warmer weather comes it may be a problem, also, the cooling fans shouldn't be on until the engine gets hot.
Any advice?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 7, 2009, 3:56 AM
Post #2 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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Your going to have to get you codes read and start from there. The only thing that will work on thiss car is a professional scan tool, not just a code reader because it's a transition year.
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psamp48
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Dec 8, 2009, 6:08 AM
Post #3 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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I am having problems getting the code read. Three places don't have that scanner, most others want to charge 1.5 hours labor to check it.
I don't have the car insured, only had a temporary permit for yesterday. I drove the car to and from work, about 100 kilometers, ran hotter when going up hills (into the red) but about 110 degrees Celsius under normal driving.
Any suggestions for the running hot issue, as I believe the engine code refers to emission problems. Should I perform a cylinder compression test?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 8, 2009, 6:23 AM
Post #4 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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As I already explained, it requires a professional scan tool to read that car. That pretty much eliminates the free places because the equipment costs thousands of dollars.
As far as the overheating is concerned, the first step would be to pressure test the cooling system to determine if it's sealed or not.
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psamp48
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Dec 8, 2009, 1:43 PM
Post #5 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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As I mentioned in the opening, the system holds 16 PSI indefinitely.
Read this,
Which Actron Code Scanners and/or Scan Tools work on 1994 & 1995 GM vehicles? 1994 & 1995 GM vehicles were equipped with several different engine computer systems. Follow these steps, in sequence to determine what diagnostic tool is right for your vehicle:
1. Find the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) in your vehicle:- If the PCM is a black box with cooling fins located under the hood, your vehicle is most likely OBD II.
- To confirm that your vehicle is OBD II-compliant, check the Emissions Decal located in the engine compartment.
- If you determine that your vehicle is OBD II compliant, use either the SPANISH OBD II AutoScanner CP9138S, OBD II AutoScanner CP9135, PocketScan Code Reader CP9125, the SUPER AutoScanner CP9145 or the SUPER AutoScanner Kit CP9150.
- If the PCM is a silver box located in the interior of the vehicle, proceed to Step 2.
2. Find the DLC (Diagnostic Link Connector) under the dashboard, usually on the driver's side:
3. If Pin "B" is present in the 12-pin connector:- Use the GM Code Scanner CP9001or
- The SUPER AutoScanner CP9145 with a GM ALDL Cable CP9127 or use the SUPER AutoScanner Kit CP9150.
4. If Pin "B" is not present in the 12-pin connector:- Use the SUPER AutoScanner CP9145 with a GM ALDL Cable CP9127 or use the SUPER AutoScanner Kit CP9150.
Will the CP9150 do the trick?
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Sidom
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Dec 8, 2009, 2:37 PM
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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As HT mentioned, on these systems the only way to pull codes was with a professional scan tool. i.e Tech II, S/O, etc.
I suppose it's possible some of the lower end code reader might have adapted their readers to pull codes with a different adaptor. Since these systems are so rare I couldn't imagine them doing that, but you never know. What you should do is just take your car there & tell them if it reads it you'll buy it. Have them hook up & see if it will pull the code, if it does, buy it. Going by what you posted, have them try #2 1st...
(This post was edited by Sidom on Dec 8, 2009, 2:38 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 8, 2009, 4:13 PM
Post #7 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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The reason they will not work is because you have an OBD2 connector but and OBD1 system. That means you can't flash codes like and OBD1 and you can't use a code reader like and OBD2. You need a professional OBD 1 scan tool with an OBD2 adapter.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 8, 2009, 4:32 PM)
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psamp48
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Dec 8, 2009, 4:31 PM
Post #8 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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I think you mean the opposite, I do have a 12 pin connector (OBD 1)
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Hammer Time
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Dec 8, 2009, 4:34 PM
Post #9 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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I've never seen one set up that way and not be OBD1 but I guess it's possible. Either way you need a scan tool.
They were mixing up all kinds of stuff in that year.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 8, 2009, 4:35 PM)
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psamp48
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Dec 13, 2009, 4:25 PM
Post #10 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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The car has been using coolant. I think there is an internal leak somewhere. So!!!!! I decided to rip it apart.
It seems the last fellow re/re the LIM and didn't use a new gasket. Pretty ugly in there! I removed the heads, gaskets seemed pretty good (compression was 180-195 all round) but rear water jacket is filled with goo, wouldn't even drain through block drain plug. Head seems gooey as well. I will clean everything well tomorrow. Ordered a new gasket set this morning (only $48 on e-bay). I will redo the heads and reassemble in a week or so.
I still haven't read the codes, but will cross that bridge after the reassembly. I feel more comfortable knowing all will be well inside.
What is the sensor at the driver's side of the rear cylinder head ? I don't have one of these on my 1996 3.1.
Also, the EVAP purge has only one connector hooked to it, but there are 2 similar wires coming towards it, I can't find anywhere else that it(they) would go to. On my 1996 Lumina (3.1), there are 2 connectors on the EVAP purge valve, but it also has another hose, which I don't see on the Cutlass.
Any info might help with reassembly.
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Hammer Time
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Dec 13, 2009, 4:55 PM
Post #11 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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That one wire sensor in the back of the head is the temp gauge sender.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 14, 2009, 6:33 PM
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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psamp; PMJIH; That is awfully cheap for a head gasket set. I'd be concerned with quality? Be sure to replace the head bolts. Not certain, but I think that the pushrods for the intake/exhaust are of different lengths? If so, make sure you get them right. And, don't use Dex-Cool. That's what created this problem (goo). Flush the cooling system and use the old-fashioned green anti-freeze. Replace the thermostat while you have the intake off. Have the cylinder heads pressure tested for cracks and resurfaced prior to reinstalling.
Loren
SW Washington
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Hammer Time
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Dec 14, 2009, 6:38 PM
Post #13 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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I will agree with everything Loren said except the Dexcool advice.
Dexcool is still the recommended and preferred coolant for that vehicle. The problems only come in when the system is contaminated with air or it's left in too long. Using green coolant will contaminate the Dexcool and rob it of the extended life properties.
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psamp48
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Dec 20, 2009, 5:50 PM
Post #14 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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O.K., it,s back together and running. The temp problem is fixed (I put in a 180 degree thermostat). The MIL lamp is out. Now the fans don't come on at all, although it didn't go beyond 100 degrees Celcuis while I was running it. I do have a slight exhaust leak at the rear, which I will attack over the next few days. I replaced the coolant temp sensor in the intake manifold, the old one was causing the fans to stay on (code 15 I believe). There is also a smell of rotten egg now, could this be caused by the exhaust leak? I haven't driven it, as it is not insured, but it seems to run o.k. other than the smell and noisy exhaust.
I have used these gasket sets before, offshore, but that doesn't make them worse, just less expensive. They fit great. I didn't use new head bolts, just cleaned the old ones and cleaned the threads. I haven't had any problems doing this before.
The weather here has been nasty lately, and as I am working outside, I am confined to limited daytime hours, today is done.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2009, 6:00 PM
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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You made a pretty serious mistake using a 180 thermostat in that vehicle. Believe it of not, that will have a major effect on the computer because it will have a hard time going into closed loop which will seriously mess up the mixture control. Also, if you have emissions inspection, you will likely fail because of that. That engine has to have a 195 deg thermostat
You also made a serious mistake re-using the head bolts. They are stretched when installed and can break when the engine heats and cools if they are stretched twice. This only applies to certain engines.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 20, 2009, 6:04 PM)
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psamp48
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Dec 20, 2009, 6:33 PM
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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I can change the thermostat back quite easily, could this cause the smell?
Neither the GM factory manual nor the Haynes manual call for new head bolts, they both state that the bolts should be cleaned with a dye (which I did), and lightly oiled then re-installed. I do have both manuals, they don't mention anything about stretch bolts.
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Hammer Time
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Dec 20, 2009, 6:41 PM
Post #17 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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All head bolts that have a spec that tells you to finish the torqueing sequence with a specific degree of turn is using a "torque to yield" bolt which is done because of expansion and contraction. If you check with the machine shop, they will tell you to replace the bolts after ever use.
Read this
http://www.robbos.com.au/myweb/Tech_Bolts.htm
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psamp48
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Dec 20, 2009, 6:48 PM
Post #18 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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Any ideas about the smell? Should I re-install the 195 and see what happens?
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Hammer Time
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Dec 20, 2009, 6:55 PM
Post #19 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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You definitely need to install the 195 stat. I won't say for sure but it certainly could be causing a rich micture and the smell your getting.
You also likely are overdue for new O/2 sensors.
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psamp48
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Feb 10, 2010, 1:40 PM
Post #20 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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I have completed the repairs of the Cutlass. It runs like a dream, has absolutely no issues anymore. I've been driving it for a week now.
Now I need to find another project car.
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psamp48
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Feb 10, 2010, 1:41 PM
Post #21 of 21
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Re: 1995 Cutlass Supreme 3.1 runs hot
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It was a broken spark plug. The car only has 1 O2 sensor, seems to be fine.
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