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1993 olds cutlass stalling problem


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dano4163
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May 6, 2010, 12:45 AM

Post #1 of 17 (4103 views)
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1993 olds cutlass stalling problem Sign In

Have a 1993 Olds Cutlass Supreme. 3.1 engine( has multi-port fuel injection) with 130,000 miles. I've had this car for about 2 months. Was running great, but now it takes spells that it stalls out. It always stalls out when you stop. It restarts fine most of the time but sometimes it can be a little hard. Some days it wont stall at all. I have never gotten a check engine light. At first I thought I had gotten some bad gas so I put water remover in it. That didn't help so then I put fuel injector cleaner in it. Still no better so I tuned it up (new plugs and wires) and a new fuel filter. I checked for vaccuum leaks and have not found any. One thing that I did notice that once I was following my daughter home while she drove it and it stalled on her was that when she was trying to start it was that it blew out black smoke from the exhaust when it started.It does have a hesitation when you give it gas. It has plenty of power, it runs smooth once you get going. Any help would be greatly appricated.


Tom Greenleaf
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May 6, 2010, 9:45 AM

Post #2 of 17 (4096 views)
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Just a question to get going with this. Has the battery been disconnected recently or run way down requiring a jump? Any situation that reset clock, radio presets - things like that?

Just want to rule that out for now,

T
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dano4163
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May 6, 2010, 10:09 AM

Post #3 of 17 (4092 views)
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Yes it has. She left the interion lights on a while back and killed the battery and I had to jump it.


Tom Greenleaf
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May 6, 2010, 10:42 AM

Post #4 of 17 (4090 views)
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OK: It's old enough for anything but this is what I think may be happening and what to do. Others here may have software for faster corrections unavailable to me.

These (many at least) cars had to "re-learn" when computer lost power and some would stall out dangerously for days or more. Any vehicle but especially some of these really want good known batteries with good clean connections for a base point. Once a battery is run dead for any reason it's taking life out them - they aren't like cell phone batteries. A few or more run downs on regular car batteries can seriously hurt their reserve.

Had one (way back) that a lady was afraid to drive understandably so I did for a couple hours! It wants to be cold to warm, go thru turns, stops and starts, cool downs and warm ups various speeds multiple times and the dang computer finally figures out how to keep things in parameters not to stall. That's if everything else is presumed ok with it which may be.

If just that it will self correct with enough driving and situations that don't reset the computer. Still could be a host of other things but in the absence of a check engine light I would guess this so far. Other possible of many would be Mass Air Flow is dirty or in trouble otherwise but with the dead battery in the history rule that out first,

T
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Long retired now


dano4163
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May 6, 2010, 1:29 PM

Post #5 of 17 (4082 views)
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So I should give it a few more days and see if it rights itself? I've been driving it for now. I will check the mass air flow. I was thinking maybe it might be the O2 sensor or maybe the throttle position sensor. But with no check engine light it would be a shot in the dark.


Tom Greenleaf
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May 6, 2010, 2:15 PM

Post #6 of 17 (4078 views)
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Don't be hasty to toss parts until you are satisfied it's had a chance. A code for O2 sensor can be very common. Shoot - just leave a plug wire dangling and O2 will sense rich exhaust but wasn't the cause.

Assorted driving as said and include some legal high speeds especially if car gets lots of around town short trips that's good for them to do on purpose.

Remember the codes are giving you info on a device or circuit showing a fault but use that info for direction more than hard info that the device/sensor is the only reason. Could be wire(s) going to something instead??

T
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Loren Champlain Sr
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May 6, 2010, 8:33 PM

Post #7 of 17 (4065 views)
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PMJIH;
dano; Besides what Tom suggested, another two very common problems on this vintage were fuel pressure regulators and coolant temp sensors. Both can cause overfueling (black smoke) and stalling at idle. Would be worthwhile to pull codes. One more thing, make sure that you are getting spark at the plugs when it dies and won't start. Intermittent crank sensor failures were very common, also, but doens't totally match your symptoms.
Loren
SW Washington


dano4163
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May 9, 2010, 3:10 PM

Post #8 of 17 (4050 views)
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Been driving the car alot. Still having the same problem, still stalling alot. Checked the fuel pressure and it is running at 42 psi. Still do not have a check engine light. I'm leaning toward replacing the fuel pressure regulator. What do you think? The car runs great but still hesitates or stalls out on take off and sometimes will not idle.


Sidom
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May 9, 2010, 5:26 PM

Post #9 of 17 (4045 views)
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A couple of basic things you can do which should be done anyway is, 1st get a can of throttle body cleaner and a little brush and clean out the throttle body. After a good cleaning, start it up, feather throttle and spray some down the throttle while running the engine.

When you're getting the throttle body cleaner, pick up a can of mass air flow sensor cleaner and clean the little sensing wire in the MAF. MAFs can fail without setting a code. Basically telling the PCM more air is coming in then what actually is but not going out of range so it won't code. This will make it run rich. Could account for the black smoke out the back...........

Don't use anything but the correct cleaner on the MAF or the throttle body for that matter....






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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 11, 2010, 8:33 AM

Post #10 of 17 (4031 views)
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Been long enough for the re-learn thing so time to start fixing as suggested. Get yourself a "memory saver" for things that require disconnecting the battery for service for any reason. Simple ones are under $10 bucks, use a 9v household battery, which reverse powers thru a power port to keep memory things alive. Have any hood light disconnected and don't open driver's door as interior lights will easily overwhelm a 9v battery!

The black smoke is not part of the learning thing as I know it. It's mostly the idle controls figuring out how to hold idle to compensate for loads of stopping, turning, A/C on, and assorted stuff. Why the default settings allow it to stall is beyond me??

T
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dano4163
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May 11, 2010, 10:17 AM

Post #11 of 17 (4027 views)
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Going to stop and buy a decoder today. Still not getting a check engine light yet tho. I'm leaning more and more toward the fuel pressure regulator. I've sprayed a whole can of cleaner thru the throttle plate with no results. With no engine light i'm kinda shooting in the dark.


Tom Greenleaf
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May 11, 2010, 11:00 AM

Post #12 of 17 (4024 views)
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Anyone correct me if wrong but I think pre OBDII if the CEL isn't staying lit there won't be much info or any in there. If it was on and stayed on a while and now off it might recall what that was for a limited period of time/cycles. Not certian,

T
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dano4163
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May 11, 2010, 12:56 PM

Post #13 of 17 (4017 views)
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I finally found a decoder, that has been a job in its self. Its giving me a code 23 (Left front outlet valve). I'm lost on this. My Haynes manual does not even mention anything about this.


Hammer Time
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May 11, 2010, 3:56 PM

Post #14 of 17 (4003 views)
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That code is for an Intake Air Temp sensor low voltage. sounds like you forgot to plug the sensor back in that is located in the air filter box.




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Tom Greenleaf
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May 11, 2010, 4:06 PM

Post #15 of 17 (4000 views)
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Dano - to be taken with a grain of salt from an old book. ECM code 23 is listed (who the heck knows?) as being............

* MAT - Manifold Air Temperature - signal voltage too high or low

* TPS - error?

* M/C - Mixture Control solenoid open or short circuit problem

* IAT - Intake Air Temperature sensor "low"

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I probably just confused this more than it was - sorry if so. With what I found if any truth in it, I'd be looking for air intake snorkeling being intact and if (forgot) this picks up warm air off manifold is that working? TPS should show ohms change evenly with moving throttle by hand. This type of stuff would explain rich mixture. Right?

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 11, 2010, 4:09 PM

Post #16 of 17 (3997 views)
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Beat me to the punch Hammer. I have a paper cut looking that upPirate

T
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dano4163
Novice

May 12, 2010, 12:13 AM

Post #17 of 17 (3986 views)
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Thanks for the quick replies. Just noticed that I was in the anti-lock brake code section of the book that came with my scanner. (It sucks being stupid.) Any way I will check out the MAT sensor in the morning. Thanks again for all the help. Will let you know how it turns out.




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