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1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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rose701
User
Nov 19, 2007, 4:02 AM
Post #1 of 31
(16276 views)
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1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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1993 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera S-
About 6 months ago I took a short drive (less than 5 miles) - parked the car and 40 minutes later it would crank but not start. That first time I returned to the vehicle about 7 hours later and it started right up. This has happened repeatedly in the last 6 months. It was completely random and the short drive theory went out the window when it would happen after a long drive. I determined that if I waited 15 or 20 minutes that the car would start. I took the car to a local shop and the proprietor told me it could be one of many things - probably a sensor or fuel pump related problem. This after the car started uneventfully all day for him. We decided to just leave it alone and hoped that it was just a fluke and wouldn't happen again.
Four times in the last four days the vehicle just stalled while going down the highway. I pulled over - turned on my flashers - rolled to a stop and the car restarted like there was nothing wrong. Last night the vehicle stalled and would not restart. I waited for a ride and abandoned the vehicle on the roadside. Any theories? The engine is a 3.3 liter (160 hp) V6.
-Thanks, Chris
(This post was edited by rose701 on Nov 19, 2007, 5:33 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 19, 2007, 5:55 AM
Post #2 of 31
(16269 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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This about has to call for just tossing some things out as I don't think it will be known exactly what is wrong until it stays broken down.
It's possible a relay could do this and would be cheaper to start there. In the event there are no codes that might help I would just toss the relay for the fuel pump. Trouble with this type of problem is you really won't know if you hit on the right thing until you have ventured out into the asphault jungle enough times without it recurring to be reasonably sure it's solved.
It's tough to tell sometimes when an intermittent problem like this happens if the problem is fuel or spark related. Try to listen for the buzz of the fuel pump when it's down with just key in run position it should buzz and stop. If nothing is heard take note of that. If it stays buzzing away take note of that too. Ya - it's noisy on the side of the road and hard to hear. Got the T-Shirt on that one!
Start with the cheaper stuff and hope it's just that,
T
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Nov 19, 2007, 6:17 AM
Post #3 of 31
(16268 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me. Regards, Chris
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Nov 19, 2007, 2:01 PM
Post #4 of 31
(16265 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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yeah i just went through the same problem, mine was the fuel pump. Tom's got that one right 4sure
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rose701
User
Nov 19, 2007, 3:30 PM
Post #5 of 31
(16262 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Thank you all again. Car is still at the shop. I asked my mechanice to change the FP relay if he didn't find anything else. I figured it would be a good starting point as per your advice. 
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Nov 22, 2007, 7:48 PM
Post #6 of 31
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I just had the exact same thing happen to me today going to Thanksgiving dinner . I have a 92 Cutlass Ciera with the same motor. Please post if you discover the problem, as mine will be towed into the shop tomorrow morning.
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Nov 22, 2007, 7:51 PM
Post #7 of 31
(16246 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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By the way, my fuel pump did engage and disengage when the key was switched to the run position, and I replaced the fuel filter a couple months back.
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
seeshearun@yahoo.com
Nov 23, 2007, 10:42 AM
Post #8 of 31
(16236 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Just an FYI. My mechanic was only able to run the car for a half a day before Thanksgiving holiday. It never stalled or coded. I picked car up yesterday and have been driving and running it all day. This morning 'check engine soon' light came on and I brought vehicle to auto zone where the code came up as 'low oxygen'. I'm still hoping vehicle won't start or stalls so I can listen to see if fuel pump is kicking in.
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Nov 23, 2007, 1:54 PM
Post #9 of 31
(16232 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I just caught it! I've been running the vehicle all day and stopping it for 30 minute to an hour clips to see if it would restart. Wala! No start. No spark. I put a jumper clip across coil and held it with insulated glove. Do you think I should replace ignition module? Is it possible that it's anything else? -Chris
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rose701
User
Nov 23, 2007, 2:11 PM
Post #10 of 31
(16223 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Does anyone know where to find the ignition control module on my '93 olds cutlass ciera. Thanks for all your help. -Chris
(This post was edited by rose701 on Nov 23, 2007, 2:13 PM)
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rose701
User
Nov 23, 2007, 2:47 PM
Post #11 of 31
(16218 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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just to add. While I was standing there. Spark came back and car started.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 24, 2007, 4:08 AM
Post #12 of 31
(16212 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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You might want to start a new thread on just where you are with this right now,
T
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rose701
User
Nov 24, 2007, 6:53 AM
Post #13 of 31
(16209 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I apologize for typing these little blurbs that probably did more to confuse than explain. I was just trying to keep you all in the mix and realized that what I was typing didn't really make sense - as your not here to see what's happening. My mechanic was unable to spend too much time with the vehicle prior to the Thanksgiving holiday. I decided to take the care home and try to repair it myself.
I first drove and then idled the car in driveway for several hours - intermittently shutting it down - and re-starting it 20 to 40 minutes later as would be the scenario prior to either the 'won't start' or stalling scenario.
Armed with your advice I listened for the fuel pump to energize. At some point during the day the vehicle would not restart. I pulled one of the plug wires and tested it for spark. There was none. I replaced coil wire - got back in the car and car started. I pulled coil wire again just to make sure I had good spark and that I was doing it correctly. Shut the vehicle down - attempted to restart and no spark again. Won't start - started - won't start all within the time frame of 10 minutes.
At some point during the day while vehicle was idling in driveway - I got a 'service engine soon' light on dash. I drove to auto zone and they hooked up computer. Code was 44 -Oxygen sensor (lean). Keep in mind this was before vehicle wouldn't start in driveway and I discovered the loss of spark.
Guy at auto zone printed out likely culprits. 02 sensor (NOT likely in failure to start scenario) Mass air flow sensor (also NOT likely in failure to start scenario) Ignition Control Module (most likely) given the random nature of the 'no start' and stalling scenarios.
Please let me know what you think. I never would have gotten this far without all your help. Should I replace ICM? Any idea where it is on my vehicle ('93 olds, 3300 V6)? The best I could come up with online was that it was located below the coil. This car has coil packs (3). Is it beneath them? Regards, Chris
FYI - Fuel pump never faultered. Energizing even when there was no spark.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 24, 2007, 8:51 AM
Post #14 of 31
(16203 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I agree that the ignition control module is most likely. It stinks because the thing is expensive and I'm not sure how it could be tested to be sure it's the problem as it does seem to be intermittent. Quite a while ago I had a car that just wouldn't run (no spark) when below about exactly 20F for 8 full hours but would be fine if started for just a few minutes at four hours like at a lunch break and could go indefinately if garaged. Never could test it out and did replace that ICM and in that one it didn't work. I'll never know with that car as it was traded for a new car the next day after a year of this nonsense when it would just plain work properly at all temps above 20F. Who knows and I don't know if that helps you decide on what to do. That was the module under the coil packs on an 88 Buick Park Ave 3.8 engine,
T
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rose701
User
Nov 24, 2007, 10:05 AM
Post #15 of 31
(16201 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Hi Tom,
I purchased and installed an ignition control module. Let me cut to the chase. Drove until engine was hot. Stopped at my neighbors to let him
know I thought the problem was fixed and I'd be returning his borrowed car. Got into car and it wouldn't start. Just the same as before. Do you
think I should replace the coil blocks (3)? Thanks, Chris
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 24, 2007, 10:51 AM
Post #16 of 31
(16200 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Are these separate coil blocks with separate wiring? I can recall just replacing on of three in some of these. In those cases the others kept working and engine was undrivable but it reacted. If you get nothing from any there has to be a common cause likely and not three failures at once. This is like playing black jack when you are counting cards to beat the odds and I hate being wrong but I just don't know how to advise much more on this one. Is anything even looking screwey with wiring connections to these items? Worth a check,
T
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rose701
User
Nov 24, 2007, 10:57 AM
Post #17 of 31
(16199 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I did check the viability of the wires. They appear healthy. Is it possible the the computer is faulty? I'm inclined to replace the 3 coil blocks and if problem persists - replacing computer. I have noticed that when the car is running I'm getting an acrid (lean) smelling exhaust. I wonder how this might tie into the 'check engine soon' light and the code that came up low O2? It's conceivable that this is part of the original problem or a new one I guess. -frustrated but very much appreciative of yours and everyone elses input. Thanks, Chris
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rose701
User
Nov 24, 2007, 10:58 AM
Post #18 of 31
(16198 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Yes they are separate blocks each going to 2 plugs.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 24, 2007, 11:31 AM
Post #19 of 31
(16195 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I'm at a loss here. They really shouldn't all be bad. They did have to come off to do the module - right. Was there a common wire for each to share? I just can't remember. Looked for the old one that I saved that didn't solve a problem and must have given it away as that was many years ago. Coils that did give me trouble just showed arcing at the towers so diagnosis was easy.
The o2 code really shouldn't be the cause of this at the moment but is probably just sensing the lack of burned gasses goin by it/them at the moment.
A wild shot to try if you want: Unplug the neg battery cable for a few minutes and see if something resets?? Sorry - I'm as frustrated as you are right now. I feel like that guy on the old Airplane movie that said things like " I picked a great day to give up drinking"
T
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rose701
User
Nov 24, 2007, 11:47 AM
Post #20 of 31
(16194 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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So in a perfect world - given the wiring is not compromised - the only things that control the spark are the ICM and the 3 coil blocks? Does the vehicle CPU factor into the equation at all? In other words could a computer problem be sending faulty information to the ICM? -Chris
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 24, 2007, 11:56 AM
Post #21 of 31
(16192 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Computer could be getting faulty info like from a cam postion sensor/crank sensor and perhaps it thinks the engine isn't turning at all??
AutoZone would show positions and location with perhaps some info on how to tell. I'm alone with you at this point. Wish the others would jump in as you can tell I'm struggling myself as to where to go next with this. A new thread would help once again stating what has already been ruled out,
T
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rose701
User
Nov 24, 2007, 3:01 PM
Post #22 of 31
(16183 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I finally realize what you meant by starting a new thread. I've just been replying. I'm not very computer savvy and I finally asked my daughter what it meant to start a new thread LOL. So I've done just that and I pray to the automotive God's for intervention. Thanks again for your time and knowledge Tom. Regards, Chris
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 24, 2007, 4:22 PM
Post #23 of 31
(16180 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Bear with me Chris. I'm not too swift with the damn 'puter sometimes either and I'm a moderator here!?!?
I'll try to move the last two up which will if it works shorten the thread so perhaps someone else will also read the post and make a comment about it. Forgive me if this fails and things are lost. The "PM" system here can get me directly and you can find it by clicking on my name above the kitty then lower right corner is the spot to click for sending a private message. Let's hope this works,
T
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rose701
User
Nov 25, 2007, 6:18 AM
Post #24 of 31
(16174 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Nov 25, 2007, 10:41 AM
Post #25 of 31
(16167 views)
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Re: 1993 olds cutlass ciera s won't start and stalls
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I have the '92 with the same problem. I changed the ICM and the car starts fine, however there is an intermittent misfire now when driving down the road. Perhaps I fouled a plug when the ICM went bad, think I'll change them next.
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