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1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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timitaoe
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Dec 29, 2014, 5:46 PM
Post #1 of 26
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1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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about 8 months ago i accuired a 1991 s-10 and up until recently it always started up just touching the keyid say less then 2-3 turns of the engine. about 3 months ago i shut it off and it wouldnt start.. after checking a few things i sprayed a small shot of ether in it.. fired rite up and drove perfectly.. now i dont mess with ether just hit the key a few short times bout 1 revolution of the motor each time ( ith bout 3 seconds between each one).. usually on the 10th it fires.. but i can dump a lil gas in it it will fire rite up. it will clutch start verry easily too bout 5-10mph and bump the clutch in 2nd gear fire rite up. no codes it did read codes 13-32 for a while but after i started having this simple problem the egr valve stuck open and i closed it with pliars and bipassed it got new erg vavle hooked up and now those codes dont read anymnore no check engine light at all and i have done brand new bosch fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel injector regulators, and o-rings on the injectors themselves, right before i got it had basic tune up done plugs wires cap rotor and all still looks good. any sugestions appriciated thank you
(This post was edited by timitaoe on Dec 29, 2014, 5:48 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Dec 29, 2014, 6:11 PM
Post #2 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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timitaoe
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Dec 29, 2014, 6:36 PM
Post #3 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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yea my little gauge goes up to 50psi and it burries it. so thats good if i remember correctly the efi on the 2.8 only uses 12-18psi to run. i dont have the fitting to check it from the throtle body so i just took the feeding hose off and checked it there.. is there any electronics or sensors that wont let the injectors prime that could go bad without leaving a diagnostic code. im going to try and get a new fuel pressure tester this weekend with all the fittings
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Hammer Time
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Dec 29, 2014, 6:41 PM
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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You can't test it that way. You have to "T" into the line to read regulated pressure. They make an adapter that can be inserted where the filter goes.
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timitaoe
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Dec 29, 2014, 6:59 PM
Post #5 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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ok that should be easy enough to do.. just a brass t and take the rubber lines off the filter and add them to that with the gauge will work then?
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Hammer Time
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Dec 29, 2014, 7:04 PM
Post #6 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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That filter shouldn't have rubber lines. It should be threaded at both ends.
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timitaoe
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Dec 29, 2014, 7:10 PM
Post #7 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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it has rubber lines and hose clamps its the filter that all the auto parts stores had for it to.. its on the frame driver side rite below the engine. wich is weird because ive always seen them on the frame underneath about where the cab and bed meet. i looked there after i found it and theres no cut lines and it apears to be all original.
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Hammer Time
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Dec 29, 2014, 7:18 PM
Post #8 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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Here's what the service manual says
DESCRIPTION
The fuel injection system uses an in-line filter. The filter is located on the left side of the vehicle in the fuel feed line. In-line filters use an O-ring where the fuel lines thread into the fuel filter. If an element should ever become plugged, the engine will stop running. An engine failure caused by a plugged filter element may be preceded by a hesitation or sluggish operation.
Looking up the part it appears to be threaded on one end and clamped on the other
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timitaoe
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Dec 29, 2014, 7:27 PM
Post #9 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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yea it threads to the tank and hose to the engine. ill check pressures when i get home tomorrow. thanks for the lead.. and the efi on the 2.8 does run on 10-18 right?
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Hammer Time
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Dec 29, 2014, 7:30 PM
Post #10 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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62-90 kPa (9-13 psi)
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timitaoe
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Jan 11, 2015, 2:46 PM
Post #11 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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ry it took so long.. had to get new gages and while it priming.. it buids up to 8psi and then drops rite down as soon as fuel pump kicks off. when i finally get it running it goes to 10 pounds.
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Hammer Time
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Jan 11, 2015, 2:53 PM
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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There's your problem. Now you have to find out where it's going. Find a rubber portion of the return line and pinch it off with vice grips and see of the pressure will spike then. DO NOT pinch off plastic fuel line, rubber only.
If you still have bad pressure and you don't smell any fuel leaking anywhere, you probably have a bad pump, assuming the electrical connections are good.
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timitaoe
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Jan 12, 2015, 3:23 PM
Post #13 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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thank you.. just thrown another fuel pump on it and she fired right up 2nd turn  . now if I can ask one more question any ideas what might me burning up fuel pumps??.. this is the 4th fuel pump i put on it and this one is a delphi which the people at napa said was the best they had, better then the bosch. now i put 2 napa special pumps in they lasted bout 2 months each. and the bosch i just changed been running that one for about 3 months.. now is it just chance i got 3 bogus pumps or should i check for a reason why i am burning them up?
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Hammer Time
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Jan 12, 2015, 4:26 PM
Post #14 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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There are a number of things that lead to premature pump failure.
- Contamination inside the fuel tank
- restricted fuel filter or pinched lines
- running the car too low on fuel too often
- poor electrical connections causing resistance in the circuit and reducing current flow to the pump
- low quality pumps
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timitaoe
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Jan 12, 2015, 4:45 PM
Post #15 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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allrighty thanks :) it can only be a few thing then.. i never run my truck under 1/4 tank. i got a much bigger sock this time not like one i seen before http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m7kUvFKvJzOGu1Kukn-1zRA.jpg up till now all i used was the $2.25 nylon mesh.. this one looks like it do alot better straining and alot more surface are to suck from. thanks alot once again
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 12, 2015, 5:02 PM
Post #16 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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If the bottom of the tank has debris rolling around inside, then it has to be cleaned out.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 13, 2015, 4:50 AM
Post #17 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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You've been in there enough so what does the pick up sock look like? Pumps run dry for any reason don't do well or fail fast. As Hammer Time suggested of all the reasons at the age a dirty tank would be high on the list for reasons next to cheap pumps,
T
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timitaoe
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Jan 14, 2015, 8:27 PM
Post #18 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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the pickup sock is always clean (edit: i also bought a new one every time i changed the pump) i got it down to a science.. i can have the old pump out and new one in in about 15 mins.. the tank thats in it is a plastic tank so no rust and every time i did a fuel pump i washed it before i took the sending unit out and emptied the tank and vacumed it out just to be safe so it is verry clean. ive also been blowing alot of light bulbs tail and running lights. so i think it might have something to do with the voltage regulator or maybe alternator? my gauge reads abbout 15-16 volts when running and about 10-11.5 when not. i had a similar problem with my 72 nova was blowing alot of bulbs and fuses put a new voltage regulator on it and alot of the problems stoped. but that had mechanical almost everything so no pump to worry about or sensors:)
(This post was edited by timitaoe on Jan 14, 2015, 8:29 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 14, 2015, 8:54 PM
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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Interesting and suggest you verify your voltage readings on another vehicle with no problems to check your voltmeter is correct.
16V - exactly when do you see this? Too high but might spike right on up.
Low readings are too low as well. A few minutes after you turn it off battery should settle down to about 12.? to 12.6 would be spot on normal lower if quite cold.
How fast is you voltmeter if you can tell? See what the voltage drop is while cranking before it actually starts.
I suspect you have a battle between a bad battery and harmed alternator or full of dirt causing a bad regulator effect and would not do just a regulator if reading are correct I wouldn't trust the rest in the alternator to last well so go rebuild or new.
The two items must work together or both battery and alternator can wipe each other out. Make sure plug ins to alternator are not burnt up or evidence of overheated wiring especially near where it plugs in and a hot wire to alternator.
IMO - high voltage is possible to harm about anything electrical exposed to it just like your light bulbs blowing in the old Nova, same concepts just ignition items quite likely more tolerant,
T
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timitaoe
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Jan 14, 2015, 9:06 PM
Post #20 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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the low voltage is prolly just old battery (2012) when its cold out (haha in florida about 30s-40's) the gauge only says about 9-10. and the high may be junk alernator maybe i beilieve this system has the voltage regulator built into the alternator unlike the nova has it on the firewall. (edit: the gauge inside says the same thing as my voltmeter within .5volts usually.)
And im getting a new starter cuz its skipping this weekend. and im also thinking about a new fuel regulator. ive rebuilt the one thats internal and ive looked and dont see any gas leaking anywhere. and the fuel pump's check valve is working. and im still not holding pressure
So im thinking about puting an aftermarket fuel regulater set to 13psi (requested psi for this efi) on the return line and just let the whole system be up to pressure. do you think this could harm anything.
and i wont here but on heavy equipment we have put check valves close to the tank to keep the gas from leaking out of the lines on older equipment. if the problem gets real bad them maybe.
(This post was edited by timitaoe on Jan 14, 2015, 9:07 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 15, 2015, 2:32 AM
Post #21 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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Correct that 30s-40sF isn't that cold really to show voltage loss alone. BTW - heat kills batteries but the troubles show up when colder usually.
You haven't checked your gauge if you were using the car's or truck's dash gauge, none I know of even if accurate measure to .5V increments.
External or internal voltage regulator isn't the point just that it works is and you haven't proven that it's off yet IMO. Battery is or isn't old either depending on that age alone. You can kill the new one too just as easily.
Starter does what? If you want to make parts outlets thrilled just keep tossing parts aimlessly instead of testing anything and by the time you've done everything to the rear license plate's bolts you'll stumble on something.
Test things out and when results are not credible test the test device with something known,
T
Starter wouldn't be so harmed by high voltage but more so gets got when volts + amps are low which is why solenoids flutter to save them. What did it really do? "Skipping?" What does that mean? Take a look as I think you need to remove the exhaust pipe to replace those and you won't like it when the bolts break trying to remove it.
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Hammer Time
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Jan 15, 2015, 3:08 AM
Post #22 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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You seem to be changing everything except the biggest problem you have. You can't ignore those voltage readings. They have to be reconciled. I'd start with a battery and then see what the charging voltage is. Don't allow it to continue with those high voltages.
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timitaoe
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Jan 15, 2015, 6:52 AM
Post #23 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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i had starter off once already. the gear on the starter was a little messed up that was last weekend and at that point the flywheel was still good no harm done to it.
(This post was edited by timitaoe on Jan 15, 2015, 6:53 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 15, 2015, 7:38 AM
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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Wasting a lot of time here. So you just had starter out and saw a messed up gear if you even would recognize one and put it back on? It's just $10 bucks for a new one called a starter drive.
It's not the point. What way was this misbehaving? A screech not quite engaging "flywheel gear" or what? These are meant to spring back away when you let go of the start position and if it stays engaged no telling what damage would be first.
This all stems from one problem you can't conclude that this has a good battery and proper voltage or anything that uses power is subject to damage. Ignition switch, wires, bulbs, modules, coil, distributor, spark, motors anywhere and more.
Do you want to fix this or just chat about things you know nothing about?
T
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timitaoe
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Jan 15, 2015, 12:52 PM
Post #25 of 26
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Re: 1991 chevy s-10 2.8 less then 100k miles starts hard
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starter is making a grinding crunching sound when its turned over. this is because 1 of the teeth on the drive gear is bout worn off only about 1/2 the thickness as the others. and im getting a new one tomorrow.
i had to put it back on as i have no money to buy the new one.(ive been clutch starting as much as possible parking on hills etc.) and truck is my only means of transportation right this instant. i have rebuilt a few engines one of wich has 240k miles on it right now.
so im good with mechanics. i just dont know alot about the fuel injection systems themselves and what will and wont hurt electronics to the point of failure. i went to school for carburated engines and basic mechanics. so i do know enough to do what needs to be done. tomorrow goal is starter, battery and alernator(if i dont need to put it on atleast ill have it).
and im thinking about puting an inline fuel regulator on the return side of the fuel system to keep the whole system up to pressure. (this is what i wanted advice on not starter).
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