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1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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RX22
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Apr 6, 2014, 11:47 PM
Post #1 of 24
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1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Hello everyone,
I have a 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo
2.0L
Manual Transmission
Thanks in advance for your help.
Okay I did something dumb. I accidentally hooked my battery jump starter to my car battery the wrong way. About 20 seconds or so (not more than a minute) I smelled burning and I knew right away the stupidity of my actions and quickly unhooked the charger.
The car would not turn over, no electrical. everything was dead.
I checked all the fuses in the engine bay fuse box and under the dash and they looked okay. The 120A alternator fuse is okay. What appears to be the fusible link cable from the positive battery terminal is okay. It doesn't appear that any fuses were blown.
There was a 3 inch segment of 6 gauge wire attached with an eyelet to the positive battery terminal that then connected to two other wires, a 6 gauge and 10 gauge. After disconnecting the battery and taking it out, I pulled back the insulation on that 3 inch piece of 6 gauge wire and could see (and smell) the troubled spot - The wire was fried in half -- halfway between the eyelet connected to the battery terminal and where it joined the other two wires.
Here's how the wire looked when I found it fried:
10 & 6 gauge - into 6 gauge wire - fried, broken connection - Eyelet to positive battery terminal
==========>--------------------------------/ /-------------------------------O+
The repaired wire:
10 & 6 gauge wire attached directly to positive terminal via 2 eyelets.
------------------------------O+
------------------------------O+
I don't see any reason why those two wires needed to be connected to a singular piece of wire and then to the battery. I think It should be okay with both directly connected to the battery. Unless someone can tell me why two wires (6g and 10g) need to connect to just one 3 inch piece of 6g wire and then connect to the positive terminal?
Anyway, In addition to fixing the broken wire I got a new battery. I hooked up the new battery and all cables/wires.
I put the car in neutral, pushed the clutch all the floor and turned the key. The car came alive electrically - Radio, dome lights, power windows, locks, headlights, gauge cluster, A/C..etc., all work fine. However the engine is dead, won't crank at all, no starter buzz either.
Any ideas why it won''t start?
(This post was edited by RX22 on Apr 7, 2014, 2:07 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 7, 2014, 2:25 AM
Post #2 of 24
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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I'll bet one of those wires was a fusible link.
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Discretesignals
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Apr 7, 2014, 4:48 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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HT is probably right on. If those were fusible links that you blew, you need to replace them with the same gauge and length. IF you wire it directly, your circuits have no protection which can result in a vehicle fire if you have a short.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 7, 2014, 4:49 AM)
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RX22
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Apr 7, 2014, 4:49 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Is a fusible link just a wire? Or a wire with a fuse in the middle? It was my understanding a fusible link is the latter. The wire I mentioned and diagrammed above did not have an inline fuse.
Can some explain and show a picture of a fusible link.
There is stiffer 6 gague red wire from the + terminal that does have a fuse connector in the middle of it. That wire was fine, with inline fuse in tact.
Also, can someone read my OP and offer suggestions of why all electrical works but wont crank or start?
Thanks
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 7, 2014, 5:01 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Fusible link is just wire but it's special wire that melts, just like yours. You need to replace it with the same amp link and the same length.
Standard colors and markings are as follows:
SIZE COLOR MARKING 22-ga. - 0.35 mm
20-ga. - 0.5 mm
18-ga. - 0.8 mm
16-ga. - 1.0 mm
14-ga. - 2.0 mm
12-ga. - 3.0 mm
10-ga. - 5.0 mm
8-ga. -8.0 mm Orange (Rust)
Gray
Blue
Black
Gray
Blue
Orange (Rust)
Black 0.35 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
0.5 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
0.8 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
1.0 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
2.0 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
3.0 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
5.0 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
8.0 SQMM FUSIBLE LINK
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Apr 7, 2014, 5:16 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Did you check the 40 amp AM1 fuse? If the fuse looks good, check to make sure you have power on both sides of it using your volt meter or 12 volt test lamp.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 7, 2014, 5:17 PM)
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RX22
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Apr 9, 2014, 6:48 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Thanks for that. Now that I see what a fusible link is, that wire was most definitely a fusible link, So Ill redo that wiring properly. That fusible link wire looked OEM and there wasn't any indication on it as to what gague or type it is. Can I just take it to electronics store or auto parts store and have them match it up?
I read online a fusible link should be 2 gagues smaller than the circuit being protected. Is that corrct?
I haven't had a chance yet to test with my volt meter.. probably this weekend.
Stay tuned for an update.
Thanks again. I sure appreciate thr help.
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Hammer Time
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Apr 10, 2014, 2:25 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Yes, the auto parts store should be able to match that up for you if the insulation color is still visible.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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RX22
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:01 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Okay, well here is the update. I went to every auto parts store in town and nobody has a 10 gague fusible link wire. I even went to radio shack and a stereo shop. Last ditch effort I tried home depot. Zero, ziltch, nada, zip! In fact, get this, nobody at any of the places knew what a fusible link wire was! I had to show a couple of guys at the auto parts stores where it was on the shelf, (thanks to you guys on here, educating me) unfortunately it was the wrong gague. The guy at home depot, who said he was an electrician, said a wire shouldn't burn like that, had no idea what a fusible link wire was, and handed me a regular piece of very stiff 10 gague, and said I should use that.
Anyway I'll have to buy it online. Can someone recommend a good brand/type and online store? The insulation color is dark blue, if that matters, and it's a 10 gague fusible link wire.
I want to wait until I get the wiring done correctly before I hook the battery up again, just to be safe. Then I'll start troubleshooting it with the meter.
Thanks
(This post was edited by RX22 on Apr 13, 2014, 4:09 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:11 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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I'm shocked that nobody has that. Did you check the help section? Are you sure you're looking for the right size? 10 gauge sounds too big.
Dorman makes replacements and Advance Auto sells them
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/c3/fusible-links/15642
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:23 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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TMK the blue is 12 gauge and black is 10 gauge. The wire says it right on it! Of course the burned out one if so you may not know if totally burned up.
Here's the 10 gauge sold by the spool or possibly by the foot depending on where you go.......
T
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Discretesignals
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:37 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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According to the chart that HT supplied, blue can be either 18 or 12 gauge. What is the gauge of the wire the link protects?
Remember as the wire gets smaller the gauge number gets higher. If you think you need 10 gauge link, you probably have 6 gauge wire (unlikely).
If you have 12 gauge wire, you need 16 gauge link.
It is usually 4 gauges smaller, but that is just a guideline. If you know the gauge of the fusible link that was blown, that is the gauge you need to put back in.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 13, 2014, 4:53 PM)
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RX22
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Apr 13, 2014, 10:46 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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I'll take a picture of the broken fusible link and the two wires it was connected to. Each person at all the stores said it is a 10 gauge wire. This fusible link wire looks like OEM, been there since '91. The wire has no writing on it .
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RX22
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Apr 17, 2014, 8:05 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Okay here are the pics:
This is the fusible link wire that fried, and what I need to replace::
http://i58.tinypic.com/m9xbgz.jpg
This is a closeup to see the fusible link wire gauge. Everyone I showed it to said it was 10 gauge:
http://i60.tinypic.com/34tdhfo.jpg
This is a closeup of the circuit the fusible link wire was protecting. It aapears to be a 10 gauge and 14 gague clamped together:
http://i61.tinypic.com/909dud.jpg
As you can see the fusible link wire is color coded dark blue. There are no markings or writing on the wire to tell me what type of wire it is. I need to find the same 10 gauge fusible link wire. nobody locally has 10 gauge fusible link wire. Does anybody know of a place online where I can buy it?
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RX22
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Apr 30, 2014, 7:23 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Update....
after doing some online searching I discovered the fusible link wire is 14 gauge, not 10 gauge like I previously thought. my local auto parts store had the 14 gauge fusible link wire. I have the battery on a trickle charger to get it fully charged. Once the batteries charged I'll try starting it. I have a pretty good feeling it will start right up. I will keep you posted.
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 1, 2014, 7:10 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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IMO and TMK trickle charging is best for a battery if it's worth crap that works best. Nothing in your car is going work right without a good battery!
Thanks for the update and let the world know how it works out.
Old but true as life is the saying "Measure Twice, Cut Once" and I'll resay that to say think twice cut once with a car problem or whatever it is and you will win! Tom
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RX22
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May 1, 2014, 6:35 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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Okay, here is the update...
I successfully, and securly connected a new 14 gauge fusible link wire in place of the burned out one. Here are the stats so far..
Battery is new and fully trickle charged.
All wire comnectors going to the battery are sqeeky clean, and tight.
Battery terminals are sqeeky clean.
All fuses that I can either pull out or view on top are good - not burned out.
Clutch pushed to the floor. Car in Neutral. Turned the key...
All electrical components work-lights, radio, gague cluster, etc. Tried starting it and I hear the starter click, click, and buzz, but car will not crank.
Please help, I have no idea what the problem is now.
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Hammer Time
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May 1, 2014, 10:48 PM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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That sounds like a bad/dead battery or loose connection.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Hammer Time
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May 2, 2014, 3:54 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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OK, whatever you say.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Hammer Time
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May 2, 2014, 8:06 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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No dude, you telling me to re-read your post was rude. You are describing classic symptoms of low voltage arriving at the starter so if you want to tell me to read your post again, you can have at it yourself.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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RX22
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May 2, 2014, 10:11 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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No dude, you telling me to re-read your post was rude. You are describing classic symptoms of low voltage arriving at the starter so if you want to tell me to read your post again, you can have at it yourself.
Wow you seriosly have an anger attitude problem. I was just refering my post to all, in case someone missed it, and not directed at you to reread it. You could have said something more helpful than .."whatever you say" ... I already told you the battery charger said it was fully charged, I said I checked the connections..You said battery and connections as if you didnt read my post. So you're telling me it cant be anything else? you have no other answer than battery or connections? You're doubing the trickle charger charged the battery fully? Could I have damaged the starter? Is ther another fusible link somewhere that is damaged? Come on dude, be helpful, not just rudely curt.
(This post was edited by RX22 on May 2, 2014, 10:15 AM)
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Hammer Time
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May 2, 2014, 10:28 AM
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Re: 1991 Toyota Celica Turbo - All electrical works but car wont start - Please Help
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The charger is not capable of telling you the condition of the battery and I'm not going to debate it with you..
Of you don't like our advice, there are other forums.
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