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03 honda element no heat


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toolman0007
User

Jan 25, 2014, 6:50 PM

Post #1 of 41 (7557 views)
  post locked   03 honda element no heat  

have this 2003 honda element again. with this cold snap it's putting out very little heat. after a good bit of running
top hose was good and warm, bottom hose was cold. thought it might be thermostat. replaced it not much of a change.
because it has A/C it's my understanding it would have a heater control valve, or bypass valve when you go from heat to A/C. if so where is it located ? or is there something else I may not be aware of. just replaced the leaking water pump about 12 days ago.


Hammer Time
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Jan 25, 2014, 7:15 PM

Post #2 of 41 (7547 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

 With the engine at full operating temp, locate the 2 heater hoses where they go into the firewall and feel them to see if they are both hot to the touch. If not too hot to hold, then you have to look at the actual engine temp and if that is up, if it is, then your looking at a restricted heater core or poor circulation for another reason.
If you find that they are both too hot to hold, then the heat in that vehicle is controlled by a blend door that regulates heated air flow. it is operated by an electric motor/actuator. The problem can be that the actuator is stripped or inoperative or the door itself could be damaged. This is what needs to be determined by examining the actuator and see if it is responding to heat change commands or not.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



toolman0007
User

Jan 25, 2014, 7:30 PM

Post #3 of 41 (7542 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

kinda put off anymore checking till the am. thanks for the info, and putting me in the right direction.
I was informed that a stop leak product was used when they noticed the coolant leak.(water pump) whats your input on that. my view is it is unhealthy for the cooling system and could cause blockage.


Hammer Time
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Jan 25, 2014, 7:32 PM

Post #4 of 41 (7541 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

Very bad.............. That could be your whole problem. The heater core could be all plugged up with the sealer but do the testing to find out.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 26, 2014, 4:57 AM

Post #5 of 41 (7521 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

From first post " after a good bit of running
top hose was good and warm, bottom hose was cold."


Yep - now knowing stop leak was used that would easily be the whole problem. So little coolant can get thru it that what does would cool to airflow temp fast and produce little to no heat.


Flush it out forward and backward. In fact do whole cooling system and get that sealer stuff out.


Sealers are useful for one last run to junk a car driving it there vs paying for a tow and that's about it on that,


T



Hammer Time
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Jan 26, 2014, 5:20 AM

Post #6 of 41 (7517 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

I think the radiator hose temps are irrelevant here. The issue is lack of heat in the heater, not overheating in the radiator. That would have no bearing on the heater temp. Concentrate on the heater hoses and their temp. It's normal for the lower radiator hose to be cooler if the radiator has done it's job as long as the truck is not overheating.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



toolman0007
User

Feb 1, 2014, 11:43 AM

Post #7 of 41 (7471 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

the element is back. ok after a good bit of running, checking heater hoses one facing fire wall, on the right very warm. one on the left very cold. conclusion no flow through heater core. some one advised flushing it.? have a new one on hand. looks like a real bear to get to. thinking dash has to be dropped . going to try flushing just the core and see if I can get flow. just on the chance anyone ever replace one on these things before, what kind of nightmare am I looking at ? LOL


GC
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GC profile image

Feb 1, 2014, 12:12 PM

Post #8 of 41 (7470 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

Havent had the joy of doing one, but I went with the Ex since I wasnt sure what you had. It shows about 8rs labor. Have to recover and recharge a/c system on top of that, if you have a/c. Definitely try flushing it.


____________________________________________________
Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob


toolman0007
User

Feb 1, 2014, 1:17 PM

Post #9 of 41 (7461 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

well took the reversible pump I have a good bucket of hot water and I have good flow in both directions. I even pulled the inline flow valve. it moved before but wanted to check how easy by hand. there was mention of a flow door actuator in above responses. will be checking that as well. so far still have not found why this had no heat ??


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 1, 2014, 1:19 PM

Post #10 of 41 (7460 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

Don't worry about the blend door until you have 2 hot hoses.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



toolman0007
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Feb 1, 2014, 1:21 PM

Post #11 of 41 (7453 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

DUH you have a point there. thanks


toolman0007
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Feb 1, 2014, 2:47 PM

Post #12 of 41 (7450 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

ok heater core has flow. put it all back together. and using just water, let it run for about 15 min both hoses at the core are warm. took it for a good 5 mile ride. both hoses at the core much warmer but bottom hose on the radiator was still cold. peeking in to the radiator I can see quite a bit of build up of what i would presume to be the stop leak that was put in. it does not appear to have flow through the radiator. it tends to back up when throttle is applied heat getting to the inside better but it's not zero out today


Hammer Time
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Feb 1, 2014, 2:49 PM

Post #13 of 41 (7449 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

I told you to stop worrying about the radiator hoses. They won't prevent the car from having heat. The lower hose is supposed to be cooler. That's what a radiator does.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



toolman0007
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Feb 1, 2014, 2:59 PM

Post #14 of 41 (7443 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

hammer I get how it works. but with the length of time running I would think the thermostat would be open or had been open enough to warm the bottom hose. apparently not. so how long do you feel this thing should run before it should be putting out heat. temp today is 30


Hammer Time
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Feb 1, 2014, 3:18 PM

Post #15 of 41 (7441 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

The temp of the radiator has no bearing on the heater temp. Engine coolant starts circulating through the heater core long before the thermostat lets it into the radiator. The temp of the upper hose is an accurate comparison of engine temp once the T-stat opens. Don't even worry about the lower hose. Heater temp should gradually increase starting almost immediately after start up.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Feb 1, 2014, 3:19 PM

Post #16 of 41 (7439 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

30 degrees with pure water in the system? Is that a good idea?





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(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 1, 2014, 3:20 PM)


toolman0007
User

Feb 1, 2014, 3:59 PM

Post #17 of 41 (7429 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

water is just for the testing, had to drain to check heater core will be putting coolant back in. planning a complete flush to get rid of stop leak


toolman0007
User

Feb 1, 2014, 4:15 PM

Post #18 of 41 (7425 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

ok have had this thing running for a good 45 min enough where cooling fans kick in (should both come on) ? hoses at heater core the one with the flow valve is hot, the other is just good and warm. hot being I can't hold it for long . I know im getting circulation through the core, but still feel what heat I am getting is still low in temp. while I'm at this thing I want to do a complete flush to attempt to get all the stop leak out, just a good long flush with hot water should do. whats your take


Hammer Time
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Feb 1, 2014, 4:22 PM

Post #19 of 41 (7424 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

I would remove both heater hoses and use a garden hose under pressure and blast it in both directions. I wouldn't be trying to do this in freezing temps. that will be a losing battle. If that doesn't work, then you just have to replace the core.

Make sure you are getting hot on both sides of that heater control valve too.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



toolman0007
User

Feb 1, 2014, 4:31 PM

Post #20 of 41 (7420 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

ok I'm in doors in a garage. to old for the out doors LOl. as I stated earlier I set it up with a pump 6gpm and had good flow both ways. you feel I could use more pressure ? house psi 65-70


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 1, 2014, 4:35 PM

Post #21 of 41 (7419 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

70lbs of water pressure in your house? Are you sure about that? I would expect the average house to be 10 to 20 PSI. That's about all city water pressure is. There isn't a garden hose in the world that will survive 70 PSI. You don't want to exceed 20 in that core. If it's not working, just replace the core.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



toolman0007
User

Feb 1, 2014, 4:44 PM

Post #22 of 41 (7415 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

yes on the pressure can't use a standard garden hose. heavy commercial rubber hose standing psi 65 and running is about 59 psi. been that way for a long time. are there any products out there that are designed to brake up or neutralize stop leak ?.


Tom Greenleaf
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Feb 2, 2014, 7:32 AM

Post #23 of 41 (7410 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

#1 - Don't use that much pressure as you can blow your new water pump and too much for radiator ends and about everything not made for that pressure.


IDK what help or harm the isle of assorted junk can do or what harm. Among them is flush for cooling systems. There has to be 20 different brands of sealer and think most is just concoctions of saw dust and perhaps fine ground rubber bits. Containers will claim anything to sell products and could care less if the work or cause harm.


Haven't needed the radiator shops for ages and most gone that I knew of. They would dunk whole radiators in some acid bath and don't know what type of acid but when parts were brass and copper would come out stripped of paint then ready to solder leaks or put a new core on reusable end tanks but not practical any more.


Never done it have heard of using automatic dishwasher soaps and flush all that out too. So many bogus claims but the junk in a bottle stuff I'll just say AYOR if you try one as a flush product,


T



toolman0007
User

Feb 2, 2014, 7:57 AM

Post #24 of 41 (7401 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

I am cautious and aware on the hole pressure thing. did a good 20 min flush both through the heater core and rad and block, separately. I'm getting heat but it sure does take a bit of time to get there. at least 20 min of run time or more. it was suggested that I just replace the heater core. kinda hard to justify with the amount of flow there is through it. I personally am not a fan of any stop leak products. internals were never meant for that crap. better to fix the problem than to apply a band aid to it. in the long run one is better off


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 2, 2014, 8:15 AM

Post #25 of 41 (7399 views)
  post locked   Re: 03 honda element no heat  

? Didn't see it mentioned but does this car have good air flow thru vents? Does it use a cabin air filter? Rodent issues chewing up or nesting with junk even a maybe?


The flushes scare me more with so much assorted alloys used and would think an acid. Never did use it on anything so difficult to comment much.


You did say takes a while to warm up in this somewhere. That's a bit unusual to me for this generation of vehicle as warming up quickly helps reduce emissions and sooner to get the best MPGs.


General: Heat should be direct engine coolant temp available. Must be free of air. Thermostat should stay pretty much shut off to radiator till it reaches the rating of it. If the hose from thermostat to radiator gets warm much at all before up to operating temp there's a problem with that IMO. Check that as so far this isn't fixed so something still isn't right so check what you can,


T







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