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'03 Ford Focus ZX3 AC Button on/off - engine problem.
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dstin43
Novice
Oct 3, 2009, 8:05 PM
Post #1 of 7
(2249 views)
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'03 Ford Focus ZX3 AC Button on/off - engine problem.
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(Engine is 2.0, dual OC, 82000+ miles)
My car was overheating and a mechanic misdiagnosed the problem and replaced coolant bottle, gasket and thermostat. That did not help but I noticed that when I drive with AC off I don’t have the overheating problem.
I went back to this place and told him that I still have the same problem and he told me that I need to replace AC Compressor and Receiver Drier in order for my car to work properly.
I did not do it and I have been driving with the AC off and everything was ok.
I had to do some other repair on my car in the meantime and they replaced a serpentine belt for “with no AC” version to bypass the AC. After that the car is blowing warm air and AC does not work.
I will try to give you an idea what the original problem might be:
The engine works in “2 separate modes”
MODE A: AC Button off – everything is ok as long as that button is off inside the car. There is another button next to it with the option of air circulating inside the car etc and that does not make any difference. The car can be blowing either cold or hot air, it can be blowing it on 1 or it can be all the way to the end of the scale at 4 and that does not make any difference as long as that AC button is off.
MODE B: AC Button on – When I had it on in the summer time the engine was overheating (I guess the outside temperature was some sort of factor as well, I live in Las Vegas and it gets very hot outside). I don’t have the overheating problem right now (beginning of October when it is not hot anymore) but the engine is acting like this:
When I drive (and have the AC Button On) the engine is acting strange and the RPM meter is indicating it. I have a stick shift and I was getting the car to go 60MPH and then just putting it into neutral gear, taking my feet off all the pedals etc and just letting it roll by itself. The RPM meter was going down to about 1 then it was starting going up all the way to 4 ½ (just by itself, without doing anything with the pedals etc), staying there for a while (you could here the engine spinning like that etc, just like I would be holding my foot on a gas with no gear etc) and then coming back to 1. After about 3 seconds it was doing exactly the same thing, going back to 4, staying there for a while and spinning and then coming back down.
I also tried turning the AC button off when the RPMs were high like this (4 ½) and that makes the engine come back to the mode A immediately, when everything is working fine (it does not stay at 4 ½ etc – it is just coming back to normal as soon as I turn it off).
This is indicating the problem that I had from the very beginning and it was not diagnosed properly. I disputed the transaction with the credit card company and I am trying to get around $300 back from the place that did not diagnose the problem and just started replacing parts etc.
I was at a local dealership and I was lucky to discuss the whole situation with the service manager there and he told me that with something like that they need to check for Idle Speed Control Problem (RPM too high) and that it can be either bad sensors, wiring or the computer.
The main problem is that I don’t understand how this ORIGINAL PROBLEM is related to my AC not working (I know that they bypassed it etc, but it should be fine as long as I fix this one, but it does not seem that way) and to overheating problem. I also have 7-10 days to send a good paperwork explaining and describing the problem to my bank in order to try to get my money back and it all seems to be a little confusing.
I don’t have to fix my car right now because I am not going to be using AC for another 6 months or so and I don’t want to spend money on that also. I can just drive like that for now. On the other hand I need to know exactly what needs to be done to fix my car and also have some sort of idea how to prove my case to the credit card company or to the judge if I’ll have to go to the court with the person who misdiagnosed the problem and charged me for unnecessary repairs.
Thank you in advance for any info you can offer.
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Oct 4, 2009, 11:25 AM
Post #2 of 7
(2239 views)
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Re: '03 Ford Focus ZX3 AC Button on/off - engine problem.
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A lot info there. Sounds like your main problem you are concerned with is the overheat. I'm a bit confused as to when it overheats. Does it do it at all speeds, all the time with the a/c on or just at higher speed with the a/c on? How does the temp do with a/c off at high speeds under load? Go down I-15 past Whiskey Pete's up that big hill and see how the temp does. does it get warmer than normal?
IF you are able to check the actual engine temp with another means, measure the normal temp & then the temp when it's overheating.
Knowing this info will help to know whether you are looking for a mechanical problem or electrical problem.........
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dstin43
Novice
Oct 4, 2009, 2:07 PM
Post #3 of 7
(2237 views)
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Re: '03 Ford Focus ZX3 AC Button on/off - engine problem.
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I actually made another description today and I will paste it below. As of right now the car is not overheating. It is that idle speed control problem, which looks like exactly the same issue, just a different symptom. Here is that 2nd description:
Ford Focus ZX3, 2003
I have a problem with overheating / idle speed control which is somehow related to the AC system in my car. It is not really the whole AC system, it is rather the AC button inside the car that determines if I have a problem or not. As of right now the AC is not working at all (I have a serpentine belt that bypasses it and I was told that AC compressor and reciver drier need to be replaced).
1) When the button is off I don’t have a problem at all. The fan can be working either or 1 or 4, it can be warm or hot air etc, that does not make a difference.
2) When I turn the button on there are two symptoms:
A) The car was overheating in the summer time. It smelled like a burning rubber from under the hood also which was probably the AC compressor.
B) Right now, in the beginning of October I don’t have the overheating problem but I have an idle speed control problem. I let the car roll just by itself 60MPH or so without doing anything (stick shift, neutral gear, feet off all the pedals etc) and the RPM gauge goes up by itself from 1 to 4 ½, stays there for a while, comes back down and the same thing happens again). Then I can speed it up a little, let it roll by itself and exactly the same thing happens.
It is strange because it all depends on one simple fact whether the AC button is on or off (and AC is not even working). I don’t have a problem when it is off, but when I turn it does that idle thing or it was overheating in the summer time.
I have been researching the topic for a while now and people tell me that these are 2 separate issues etc, but it is exactly the same “course of events” (so to speak), timing etc just two different symptoms like the temperature outside would be the factor here.
I don’t know. I know that the problem is strange by now etc, but I am just trying to figure out what is going on. The car itself is not worth much anymore, but it only has 82000 miles on it and I would like to have it for at least 2 years from now, but at the same time it seems like a difficult problem to solve and that costs money too, so I don’t know.
It looks like this is just one thing that is causing the problem but people tell me to check the overheating (pressure test, radiator etc), check the idle speed control (computer, wiring, sensors), fix the AC (replace the AC compressor and receiver drier) but all that does not make sense economically and I don’t think that I have 3 separate problems with my car. It all started just with little overheating problem that was related to AC (it would not overheat with AC off).
Would you have any ideas what to do about it. The only good thing about it is that I can actually drive my car and don’t have no problems, but the AC does not work. Thanks in advance for any info you can offer.
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dstin43
Novice
Oct 4, 2009, 2:19 PM
Post #4 of 7
(2236 views)
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Re: '03 Ford Focus ZX3 AC Button on/off - engine problem.
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The thing is that the car does not overheat anymore. Now it is doing that RPM thing with AC Button on (it is not even ac which is not working, just the button). I would say it would overheat the summer time no matter how fast I was going but I dont remember for sure right now. It seemed more like a problem in the city when I was stopping at the traffic lights then going again etc. It was probably better on the freeway when I was going faster and the air was blowing etc.
If I have the AC off (the button) it does not do anything abnormal. It is just like a regular good working car. It is just like that single AC button would be putting the car (engine) in a different, problematic mode. Like it would be in the way of the car working properly.
It is strange too because people tell me to check all the overheating things and RPM things too, but these 2 dont seem like a problem. The are more like sypmtoms of somehing else that that AC BUTTON is causing. I dont know how to describe it really, but thats what it is...
(This post was edited by dstin43 on Oct 4, 2009, 2:21 PM)
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profleet
Novice
Oct 4, 2009, 5:46 PM
Post #5 of 7
(2224 views)
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Re: '03 Ford Focus ZX3 AC Button on/off - engine problem.
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Alright 1st things first. The original complaint of the vehicle over heating with a/c on. Take the vehicle to a car wash and wash out the radiator and front a/c condenser, which is the radiator looking thing in front of the actual radiator. Wash this from the front side and from the engine side if possible. I am sure this is full of dust and dirt and road debris.
Next when the vehicle gets hot enough to turn on the engine fan watch for the speed of the fan. The engine cooling fan could be defective and spinning to slow. a quick test to verify this is to spray cold water unto the radiator when engine is hot and overheating. Does it help cool the engine down? also may want to check temperature of radiator and make sure not plugged internally.
Those vehicles are tough to clean, very tight and compact.
2nd-Now for idle issue. When ever you push the a/c button on it will cycle the cooling fan and compressor on and off at the same time. so even know the belt is off the a/c the fan will still cycle on and off as if the a/c was there and operational. The engine automatically will raise the RPM of the vehicle every time this cycle occurs to prevent vehicle from stalling with the additional load of the a/c and cooling fan. Also in the winter your vehicle in defrost mode uses the a/c compressor. Eliminating the compressor may cause excessive steam and frost build up inside the vehicle when cold. Most people think all the compressor does is cool the car off! What it actually does is remove the humidity out of the air being blown into the vehicle. You in turn feel cooler. With that said the moisture from outside will no longer be removed from vehicle since you by passed the a/c.
3rd- The shop dispute.
I am a shop owner of 8 years and technician for 15 years. I can tell you from experience if you have a problem with a shop first thing you do is take it up with the owner or manager. If no help there then report them to your local B.A.R. they will let you file a report and explain your side. They will contact the shop and investigate them. If they find negligence they will force them to give your money back and fine them heavily. It's unfortunate hear stories like yours all the time at my shop and it is too bad that a few bad shops will give the rest of us a bad rep. I would never charge a customer for a repair if it was not fixed when the vehicle left our shop.
If you need any more help email me at address deleted
Thanks Sam
Personal address and link deleted. All questions are addressed within the forum. No advertising links allowed.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 4, 2009, 6:03 PM)
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dstin43
Novice
Oct 4, 2009, 7:16 PM
Post #7 of 7
(2207 views)
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Re: '03 Ford Focus ZX3 AC Button on/off - engine problem.
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Thanks a lot for your answer. It really makes sense and it is the best one I have got so far. I know that I need to replace the AC Compressor and Receiver Drier (AC Kit) and then make sure that everythings fine with the raditor (clean it, check it etc). Thats what most people say, I was also told that I might need to replace the computer also, but it does not seem like it should be the case.
As of right now I am at a stage of going through the credit card dispute and I was told that Visa requires more details that I have given to them (I had a letter stating that the car was still overheating 4-6 weeks after the repair there). The thing is that the car is actually not overheating anymore :) but I know that they did not fix the problem because it was overheating really bad 3 days after the repair there and then I started driving with AC off.
I actually started looking into what happened when I was replacing a timing belt at the other place where they gave me the letter.
I found a good place at a Ford dealership in the city where I live and I was actually lucky to speak to the service manager there about it and he should be able to help me with that also. I am basically planning to drive like that for several months and then fix the AC before the summer time. All I need right now is a good estimate or a letter that I can send to the bank in order to get my money back. If not I will have to wait and go to a small claims court with that...
Thanks again.
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