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02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting


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mom2desi
Novice

Mar 2, 2017, 7:12 PM

Post #1 of 13 (304 views)
02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

Hey everyone, I need a little help as I've searched as much as I've had time for but I still can't find a, more or less, definitive answer or route. Also, please be forgiving because I'm not "car" person but I do believe in using my own two hands to do the things I can.

I have a 2002 Chrysler Town and Country with 165k miles. I bought it used within the last four months so I don't know what sort of maintenance or repairs have been done. My van will start, chug and sputter for anywhere between 5-10 seconds, and then stall. Or sometimes it won't even start. The engine turns, even when not starting. I first had this problem only a few times in the last month but it didn't start that way. Several, I had started the car and it was idling very rough so I turned the car back off, waited a few seconds and restarted the car. It almost always ran fine on restart but a couple of times I had to rev the engine for it to "get past" the tough idle.

Recently, my car will start, chug and sputter, then stall. And this will gone on a few times before it doesn't even start. But not all the time. Sometimes, I start the car and it fires right up and runs like there is nothing wromg. It took me a couple days of this "hit and miss" of driving the car but t I noticed that when the engine is cool, there are no problems. When the engine is "hot," that's when it will not restart. This obviously puts a damper on days of running kids to the doctor and shopping!

I replaced the MAP sensor and cleaned the Throttle Body as well as something else that's in the TB. It's not the TPS. I think it was the AIS but I'm not sure. My repair manual isn't readily available. When I took out the throttle body, I did find a vacuum leak that I repaired with a new hose. I also have tried a fuel system cleaner. I have a feeling it might be my fuel pump but I want to get some feedback before committing to that. If you've made it this far, thank you! What else can I try before having to get under the car or spend $400? Any help, guidance, or kind words is appreciated!

ETA: it's a 3.8 liter


(This post was edited by mom2desi on Mar 2, 2017, 7:14 PM)


kev2
Veteran
kev2 profile image

Mar 3, 2017, 7:52 AM

Post #2 of 13 (265 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

Is the vehicle drivable ? - can you drive to an auto parts store and get a FREE scan - even if light is off.

Plan B - may NOT show all codes but a start...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvG0h2-s1ug


Do you have any tool - or access to fuel pressure gauge? Hand tools sockets etc remove plugs?


mom2desi
Novice

Mar 4, 2017, 8:17 AM

Post #3 of 13 (243 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

The car drives just fine when I start it when the engine is cool. Someone else suggested those same things and my plan is to go today after work. With no check engine light on, can the auto parts store still pull codes? It had been on about two weeks ago and they pulled the code and said it was the fuel cap. I replaced it and then it turned off. It went off again one of the times the car failed on me but I never went and got it checked as it turned off after the recent work I did.

. As far as the video link you gave...currently the codes it gives is p1648, p0456, and p0171. The first two codes are the same things it gave a couple of weeks ago. The p0171 is fairly new.

I will stop at the parts store on my way home though and ask about scanning again. I'm not sure about a fuel pressure gauge but I definitely have tools. Is the gauge the thing to test the fuel pressure? I think the part store would have one for rent or loan and I will ask about that today as well.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Mar 4, 2017, 9:08 AM

Post #4 of 13 (232 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In


Quote
It had been on about two weeks ago and they pulled the code and said it was the fuel cap.


OK, first off, there is no one at the parts store qualified to diagnose a problem any further than reading stored codes.
Second........... there is no code that tells you a gas cap or any other component for that matter is bad. The code merely tells you of a specific situation in that circuit that requires further diagnosis to determine the actual cause.

The code he saw was indicating a leak in the vapor system of the fuel tank that he wrongly assumed was caused by the gas cap. That problem has nothing to do with your symptoms anyway.

The P1648 does not appear to be a legitimate code for this vehicle so that needs a real scanner to confirm.

The P0171 is the code that aligns with your symptoms. That code indicates a lean mixture for whatever reason and that cause is what needs to be found and corrected.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kev2
Veteran
kev2 profile image

Mar 4, 2017, 9:21 AM

Post #5 of 13 (226 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

the p0171 is the issue I would start with - as you claim there is no longer a P0456.
I would look for a vacuum leak* then check the fuel pressure.
A rescan is advised - that p1648 please confirm that # is stored. Its not on my quick list.
Get a can of carb spray - watch how to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYa8rcHeN3A


Be slow to buy parts based only on a code number - parts stores clerks are NOT technicians, they make their money selling parts.


mom2desi
Novice

Mar 4, 2017, 11:17 AM

Post #6 of 13 (208 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

I did find a busted tube when I had taken the throttle body out to clean it. I replaced it but just realized it's the throttle coolant hose. Would a broken one of those cause a vacuum leak? Because that's all I did after the CE light came on last time.

I stopped st the auto parts store and they claim they can not pull "stored" codes. Only when the light is on can they check for codes. Is this standard at all shops or would I do good to go to a different one? There's maybe 6 within 10 minutes of my house.

I have the fuel pressure kit with me now and will be putting that to use here shortly.


mom2desi
Novice

Mar 4, 2017, 2:54 PM

Post #7 of 13 (203 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

I'm not sure if I've done something wrong or if something is broken. I connected the fuel pressure tester and the gauge doesn't move at all. I did have some gas spray when I was connecting it and the car even started, but no reading from the gauge.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Mar 4, 2017, 2:55 PM

Post #8 of 13 (202 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In


Quote
I stopped st the auto parts store and they claim they can not pull "stored" codes. Only when the light is on can they check for codes.


They are idiots. The PCM has stored codes in memory.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kev2
Veteran
kev2 profile image

Mar 4, 2017, 5:35 PM

Post #9 of 13 (187 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

my thoughts -
You just acquired this vehicle. You did the code check - key on off trick and saw codes p1648, p0456, and p0171.
When running the CEL is staying OFF - am I correct?
Then I would suspect the bulb is inoperative*. But the system can be scanned.
P0171 is still where I would start checking. gauge attached to fuel rail KOEO what is PSI? how long will it stay there?


* will explain later


mom2desi
Novice

Mar 7, 2017, 6:58 AM

Post #10 of 13 (168 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

I Was not able to get a pressure reading. No matter what I did, the dial on the gauge wouldn't move. And I know there was fuel going to it because I had some spray at me when I was connecting it AND the car started.

I think it's worth mentioning that the stalling issue is not as severe as it was before I replaced he sensor and cleaned the TB so I feel like I'm on to something there.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 7, 2017, 7:51 AM

Post #11 of 13 (162 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

! Connect a fuel pressure tester with the car off, key off. You could relieve any pressure at a fuel filter first + suggested. Then just turn key to run but not started. That reading first and no leaks to gauge hook up. It should bleed out thru a tube you can catch fuel to remove when done.
See how long it hold with just that almost no change for several minutes. Then test with it running it may jump a tidbit higher because a running engine is at higher voltage that when off.


If rented the gauge you got could be terribly abused. Don't let it actively leak and any spilled let dry out completely, open hood and leave the vehicle alone. Later if it leaks where it was connected that's another problem to tend to immediately,


T



mom2desi
Novice

Mar 15, 2017, 8:54 PM

Post #12 of 13 (124 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

I've been swamped with work so I haven't been able to try again with a different fuel pressure gauge to try for a reading. I agree that it could be a bad gauge considering the first one I got was actually missing key components of the tool and had to be exchanged.

Here's what has happened this week in between working and kids: I dropped the van with a mechanic and they said all codes point to the PCM needing reprogrammed. They wouldn't look at it further before I did that. I took it to the dealer for a reprogram and they said it's unlikely to fix my problem and would be a couple of hours before they could start. They the previous mechanic cleared the codes so they were unable to pull any to see what the first mechanic saw. I stupidly forgot to ask him as well so I'm still at square one.

I spent some time After work today checking hoses and connections for a vacuum leak but I don't think I came across anything useful. The only thing that stuck out to me was that there aren't clamps on all the hoses and that I really need to get an oil leak fixed as there is buildup on hoses under the car. No oil spots on the concrete though so I wasn't alerted to it until I got under the car.

But it got me to thinking about when I cleaned the throttle body. There was black liquid inside the intake manifold. It looked like oil to me. I'd never seen one before so I just assume it's typical but I'm wondering if maybe it isn't? If it's not, could that cause some of the problem?


kev2
Veteran
kev2 profile image

Mar 16, 2017, 6:00 AM

Post #13 of 13 (107 views)
Re: 02 Town&Country Stalling and/or not starting Sign In

the codes have been cleared BUT they likely remain in a 'folder' called HISTORY within PCM.
If the PCM is bad or an issue it will quickly reset the code after operating vehicle and will again be able to retrieve it.
Fuel pressure - any progress on this ?
The black deposit - taking a guess this is from the PCV system, engine blow by.
Did Chrysler dealer do the reprograming (AKA Reflash) ?
Is there A CEL on now?






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