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runs lean after cleaning injectors


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mikewax
User

Dec 31, 2016, 1:04 AM

Post #1 of 24 (546 views)
post icon runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

so i got a 2003 Toyota Matrix and after cleaning the injectors it idles rough and gives me

P0300, random misfire detected
P030x, misfire cylinder x (all 4)
P0171, system too lean

any ideas?
thanx, mike


Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 31, 2016, 3:36 AM

Post #2 of 24 (540 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

Just how did you clean injectors and was it doing this before that also?


Fuel pressure check would be helpful as a beginning,


T



mikewax
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Dec 31, 2016, 1:11 PM

Post #3 of 24 (528 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

well i flushed them with carb cleaner as seen in link deleted .............. not allowed
the engine was running fine before i did it. now it's missing on all 4. but it's only missing at idle.
maybe i could borrow a pressure guage at Autozone, we'll see....
thanx


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 31, 2016, 2:36 PM)


kev2
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Dec 31, 2016, 2:30 PM

Post #4 of 24 (521 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

 - at parts store check on loaner fuel pressure gauge and FITTINGS needed for testing, price injectors 4.
A scanner looking at FT's may confirm fuel issue.


mikewax
User

Dec 31, 2016, 3:01 PM

Post #5 of 24 (512 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

OK i'll see what i can get. but it looks like i won't have time today so i'm just gonna turn up the idle speed for now and do it tomorrow.
BTW, could persistent missing damage the cat?
thanx


Hammer Time
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Dec 31, 2016, 4:43 PM

Post #6 of 24 (508 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

Of course. It will destroy it in very short time.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



mikewax
User

Jan 5, 2017, 5:47 PM

Post #7 of 24 (467 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

well i got a pressure gage at autozone and the reading was 47 lb. i pumped the throttle many times and the needle barely moved, less than a half unit deflection up or down. i also noticed a small but steady stream of white smoke out of the exhaust. and it made a big plume when i raced the engine.
and it runs smooth as silk above 950 rpm.


Hammer Time
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Jan 5, 2017, 5:51 PM

Post #8 of 24 (461 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

White smoke can mean two things....................

Most common is coolant being burned in the combustion chamber, usually from a blown head gasket

or an over rich fuel mixture, not as likely.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



mikewax
User

Jan 5, 2017, 6:57 PM

Post #9 of 24 (451 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

OK thanx i'll start checking the oil and water.


Discretesignals
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Jan 5, 2017, 6:58 PM

Post #10 of 24 (449 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

Does the white smoke coming out smell like raw fuel or burns your eyes? If so, you may have an injector that is stuck open. Probably from your cleaning process. Those injectors should never need to be cleaned. If you did want them to be tested and cleaned, for whatever reason, they need to be flow tested and ultrasonically cleaned. There are companies that do that kind of service. Toyota injectors are very dependable.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jan 5, 2017, 7:01 PM)


mikewax
User

Jan 6, 2017, 4:05 PM

Post #11 of 24 (420 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

well if there was a stuck injector i would think that the engine would be running rough at higher rpms too, right? but it's very specific and will only start hesitating when it goes below 950 rpm.
and i looked at it again today and it seems the exhaust is only making white smoke when it first starts up, i tried to smell it and it did have a distinctive odor but then the smoke went away before i could think of what the odor was.
and i checked the oil, no sign of milkshake or water thank god.
as for cleaning the injectors, i can thank my @*!%ing wife for that. some garage man told her that they should be cleaned (guess why), so i had to do it. you can bet i rubbed it in her face when the engine started running worse after doing it.


Hammer Time
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Jan 6, 2017, 4:40 PM

Post #12 of 24 (413 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In


Quote
well if there was a stuck injector i would think that the engine would be running rough at higher rpms too,


Then why are you asking the experts for help if you're smarter than they are.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Jan 6, 2017, 4:43 PM

Post #13 of 24 (409 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

You should go over your work again. Maybe you created a vacuum leak at one of the injector o rings.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
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Jan 6, 2017, 6:54 PM

Post #14 of 24 (405 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

That wouldn't explain the white smoke.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Jan 6, 2017, 7:23 PM

Post #15 of 24 (398 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

From his description it seems the smoke only comes out when he first starts it and then it disappears as it warms up. Could be steam from the condensation burning off in the exhaust. He stated it runs rough around idle speeds and is flagging a lean code which could be symptoms of a vacuum leak. Big enough vacuum leak at idle can cause misfiring. Also stated that all these problems started right after he did the injector cleaning. If it was a stuck open injector, he would know because the white smoke would be a raw fuel cloud that would burn his eyes. If it all the sudden blew a head gasket after messing around with injectors, that would be one heck of a coincidence.

If you suspect a head gasket issue, pull all the plugs out, let it sit overnight with a coolant pressure tester on it, and see if any coolant is laying on top of the pistons.

Take a spray bottle of water and spray a stream around the injectors while the engine is idling. If you hear or see the water getting sucked past the injector insulators, it has a vacuum leak.


service info:
9. INSTALL FUEL INJECTOR ASSY
a. Install a new insulator to the each fuel injector.
b. Apply a light coat of spindle oil or gasoline to a new O-ring, and install it to the each fuel injector.

NOTE: Never use engine, gear or brake oil.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jan 6, 2017, 8:00 PM)


mikewax
User

Jan 9, 2017, 5:55 PM

Post #16 of 24 (358 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

Ok i tried the spray bottle trick and couldn't see any sign of water getting sucked in around the grommets. If there is any suction goin on there it's too little to make any visible difference. so i still have the idle about 15% high and just scratchin my head.


Hammer Time
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Jan 9, 2017, 6:53 PM

Post #17 of 24 (354 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

You're not looking for anything when you do that, you are listening to the engine for sudden changes.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



mikewax
User

Jan 9, 2017, 8:05 PM

Post #18 of 24 (349 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

oh... ok well no there wasn't any audible change either.


Discretesignals
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Jan 10, 2017, 11:03 AM

Post #19 of 24 (334 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

Just curious, but what was the reason for cleaning the injectors? How was the engine running before all that?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


mikewax
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Jan 10, 2017, 1:11 PM

Post #20 of 24 (321 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

my stupid-ass wife. it was running fine. some garage man told her (surprise) that the injectors should be cleaned, not knowing that she has a husband who will have to do it. i figured whatthehell it's a trivial job. so next time she comes home with some red herring sales pitch i can say "remember when....."


(This post was edited by mikewax on Jan 10, 2017, 1:13 PM)


Discretesignals
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Jan 10, 2017, 6:09 PM

Post #21 of 24 (310 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

Really the next step would be to check the flow rate and performance of the injectors since all this started after the injector cleaning. Maybe the injectors were damaged in the process. Usually DIY don't have that kind of equipment to check injectors though.

According to service data

Injector resistance should be 13.4 to 14.2 ohms at ~ 69 degrees F
Injector volume is 60-73 cm3 per 15 seconds
The difference in flow rate between injectors should be less than 13 cm3
Fuel drop should be 1 or less in 12 minutes.

As you can see the equipment needed to perform this would need to be an injector flow bench.

They have a tool that can do an injector balance test, but once again it is something you would find in a professional shop. There are companies that can test the injectors for you. Its not too expensive if you decided to go that route.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


mikewax
User

Jan 11, 2017, 12:47 PM

Post #22 of 24 (292 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

ok THANX for the information i'll probably end up doing that. for now i'm just gonna let it run a tad fast and wait till i got more spare time. thanx guys for your assistance :-)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jan 11, 2017, 1:05 PM

Post #23 of 24 (288 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

That's a good way to destroy your Catalytic converter.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



mikewax
User

Jan 11, 2017, 1:27 PM

Post #24 of 24 (283 views)
Re: runs lean after cleaning injectors Sign In

well yeah i'm just gonna get around on my scooter until i can work it out. Unsure






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