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Scratched camshaft, leaking seal.
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rainasky
New User
Aug 8, 2006, 1:04 PM
Post #1 of 5
(7549 views)
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Scratched camshaft, leaking seal.
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I own a 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD sedan that I'm having some issues with. A few weeks ago I took my car to the shop to have a leaking cam seal replaced. Oil had been leaking around the timing belt assembly for quite some time and had started to burn off causing the car to smoke whenever I came to a stop while the engine was hot. The mechanics informed me that there was a scratch on the cam itself which was allowing oil to leak out from underneath the seal and accumulate around the timing belt and under the engine.
A few questions... How does a scratch like this come about? Is it something that can happen naturally or more likely caused by a tool (I've recently had the timing belt replaced, and two years ago the same shop replaced the cam seals and the timing belt because of a leak - but there was no mention of a scratch made at that time)? Basically I'm wondering if it could have been the mechanic who caused the scratch in the first place?
Also, ever since the last replacement of the seal the leak has gotten worse. I'm thinking maybe the seal wasn't properly installed and has come partially loose. Is a scratch such as this likely to get worse on it's own, or am I right in thinking it's a poorly done repair job (I have had a lot of problems recently with this particular garage - having to return for multiple repairs of the same problem or poorly done repairs needing redone, etc)?
I sent my husband by the garage to ask the mechanics when a good time would be to drop by and have them visually inspect the seal to make sure it's properly installed... well, they told him we ought to start looking for a used engine to replace the one in my car. This is not the first time we've heard this from this garage, and usually when they advise us to do this it's before even looking under the hood of the car. I even caught them in a big lie the last time we had the car there. I was wary of taking it back to them in the first place so I had a friend of my father's (who has worked on all of our family's vehicles for the past 15 years) check it out first. I was under the initial suspicion that the oil was coming from a leaky valve cover (or worst case scenario - the head gasket) so I had him inspect both places for the source of the leak. He assured me that the head gasket and the valve cover were both in great shape, and that the leak was coming from either the crankshaft or camshaft seals. He wasn't able to do the repair because of a back injury, unfortunately... but the garage tried to tell me when I took the car to them that not only was the camshaft seal leaking but so were the valve cover and the head gasket! It was only after informing them that I'd already had a trusted mechanic evaluate both of those areas for leaks that the mechanic on the phone choked up and tried to backpedal, saying that it was difficult to tell exactly where the oil was coming from because there was so much oil that had leaked. When the car was "repaired" and returned to me, the mechanic explained his earlier misdiagnosis of the problem by claiming the car had 3 quarts too much oil in it (which I also know is untrue).
I really dread having to take the car back to them, even to correct a problem with the previous repair but I'd rather not spend the extra money going to another shop to fix this shop's screw up!
Should I go ahead and have them check the repair they made and make sure it's done properly? Should I remain present on site while they perform the check? I don't plan on returning to them for any future repairs, but I want to make sure I protect myself against any more problems from these people and make sure the problem is corrected if it was indeed a poor repair job.
(This post was edited by rainasky on Aug 8, 2006, 1:07 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 8, 2006, 2:34 PM
Post #2 of 5
(7542 views)
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Re: Scratched camshaft, leaking seal.
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Whew! Ok - I don't know exactly how that seal is installed or designed but I can say this:
Seals that need to hold oil on moving parts are designed to leak the smallest amount to protect the seal. Engines that sit for long times can get some rust and ruin seals.
I think you need another shop to look at this and I don't really like this "scratch" story. Worn out - maybe. This is NOT cheap stuff to fix hence the talk about another engine.
A new seal in these spots will not work if bearings in the shaft are bad is most common or perhaps it really did get scratched up taking out the old one with puches and stuff. Can't see that happening on its own. But over the years I've seen crazy stuff happen.
You said you caught them lieing to you so why do you go back there? T
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rainasky
New User
Aug 8, 2006, 4:16 PM
Post #3 of 5
(7541 views)
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Re: Scratched camshaft, leaking seal.
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I go back mainly because it's the only shop for miles and miles, and since they keep screwing up I intend to have them correct thier mistakes at no cost to me (since I shouldn't have to pay for thier mistakes, you know?). I never wanted to take it to them the last time for this seal replacement but they offered to do the job for a very good price - though I guess you get what you pay for, huh? - and money is very tight, so...
Basically, I don't think this "scratch" could get worse on it's own either, and I intend to let them know that I won't be doing business with them no matter what the diagnosis of the problem is this time. If it turns out it's still leaking through some fault of the mechanic's, I do intend to have them fix it (for free), but I also intend to have another shop follow up on the job and make sure it's done properly. If it turns out there is another underlying problem or a new problem that's just surfaced I suppose I will either be shopping for a new engine or a new car altogether.
After speaking with the shop owner again after my original post, he informed me that they did in fact try to smooth out the scratch (which he now describes as a "gouge", although before he had told me it was a small scratch). Is there any kind of recourse I can take if they have done more damage than good in the process? If the scratch/gouge came about during a previous repair, it had to have happened at this particular shop since I haven't been anywhere else in a number of years (call me stupid, but I actually trusted them at first.. I think it may be a new crew of employees who are perhaps not very experienced that are causing all my current woes). They estimated the cost of putting in a rebuilt engine at around $2,000 dollars - is that what I can reasonably expect to pay at another shop? The car is only worth 2,000 dollars in the first place.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 9, 2006, 8:18 AM
Post #4 of 5
(7536 views)
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Re: Scratched camshaft, leaking seal.
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I may get in trouble here but I don't like rebuilt engines! I would much sooner go for a good used original. The salvage yards can be real good at determing what is good and what is junk.
The couple around me will install what they sell!! That and warranty it!
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I still don't really understand the scratch/gouge thing that I can't think of a way that could happen short of from a tool! It could have been there when the car was new so there's no way to prove fault. You had it replaced because it leaked to begin with so there was something wrong.
You are the only one I've heard of with this problem. I'm at a loss except for right now keep the engine full of oil and spare oil in the car.
Hey let us and the world what you find out but I still think you need a second opinion from hands on checking this out and as much as I love this site I don't think we can diagnose this further with a keyboard, T
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rainasky
New User
Aug 9, 2006, 1:23 PM
Post #5 of 5
(7534 views)
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Re: Scratched camshaft, leaking seal.
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Thanks a lot Tom! Prior to researching this problem on the 'net, I'd never imagined that this was a probable cause of the oil leak in my car either. I was only able to find one account of another person having the exact same issue, and it was indeed a toolmark. It's possible that it was a factory defect, I guess, only that you'd figure the car would have been leaking oil all 13 years that I've owned it instead of starting two years ago. Oh well! I've set up an appointment to at least have them take a look and make sure the seal is nice and tight and hasn't come loose (this Friday) - so I'll let you know what happens!
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