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98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start


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dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 3:13 AM

Post #1 of 16 (1426 views)
98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Helping my buddy, He has a 98 Lumina with a 3400 SFI motor from what the guy said was a Grand Prix. No clue as to year, seems to me in the 94-97 range. Ok so, He had an overheating issue, for reason unbeknownst to me, he pulled the thermostat and went back to life as usual. Didnt say my buddy was mechanically inclined. Of course the water pump failed. Fast forward to the end of the new pump install, therm install, tune up etc. after double and triple checking my firing order and all requisite vacuum lines and misc hoses, I tried to start this turd. cranked all day with no start. At abt dawn I managed to get it start but immediately went into limp mode, in a very underwhelming display of jack squat for power. sounded like I would if the Mrs decides to step on the ole family jewels. Never in my life have I dealt with these specific issues and ended up with a p.o.s. paper weight. Any help would not only be extremely helpful but welcomed with an open mind. Thanks for taking your time to read this. Have a good one


dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 3:23 AM

Post #2 of 16 (1416 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

And yes sir mr Tom. Im aware they all start in the same place, just come back from running the primary diagnostics. Had spark on 5 1/2 of 6 Plugs. I say this because the number 4 cylinder had the only plug that looked degraded to me although it did spark. have had 2 different pressure readings and that seems wierd to me. Before I was able to start it briefly earlier i got 34 high side and 28 low. but after a break it was reading back up between 52-53 high side. Will get a compression tester today, but Id be my soul gainst a fiddle of gold, its not a loss of compression. Rather sounds like theres so much compression that the intake man. is going to blow off the motor


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Aug 20, 2014, 3:23 AM

Post #3 of 16 (1416 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

The first step would be to have the codes read and post the numbers here.

Double check your CTS connection.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 3:27 AM

Post #4 of 16 (1410 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In


In Reply To
The first step would be to have the codes read and post the numbers here.

Double check your CTS connection.



I cant find a single code in the computer. Even tried to trigger the computer into a fault by undoing a vacuum line and plugging it. still not positive of my thinking on that but it sounded reasonable


dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 3:28 AM

Post #5 of 16 (1409 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Also, thank you kindly Sir for your time and efforts.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 20, 2014, 3:37 AM

Post #6 of 16 (1408 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Do want this or run from this? I'd runMad


Gotta know what it really is and if not exact engine near impossible practically to use another size or even by model year. OE info if things are OE still would be on stickers under the hood, door jam for month/year made and VIN thru windshield will say what it was if not a salvage vehicle.


So, this rocket scientist removed the thermostat that alone was a huge mistake, would never allow any sensors to instruct engine to run as warmed up plus probably overheat away from water pump end as circulation is all wrong AND add that it may say it's not overheating but probably tossing tons of extra fuel into exhaust, clogging converter(s) and ended up in limp mode.


You decide to take this on more or not but sounds like you can't win no matter what. If only one more thing check for exhaust back pressure issues and make sure warning lights work key to run but engine off AKA KOEO is a bulb check.


Get codes but really think about what any if any are by the # not a diagnosis by itself but area(s) of trouble and bet there's plenty.


Your call. If a good friend I suggest you pass on getting too far into this lest you take the blame for its demise,


T



dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 4:16 AM

Post #7 of 16 (1404 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Theres is no joke there. mistake one was answering the door yesterday. I was really starting to lean towards a fouled exhaust last night. I didnt want to admit to myself or my guy that i was thinking everything from the header panel on back is bound and destined for a scrap heap. I know for sure the 3400 SFI is out of a Grand Prix. the only years that wouldve have the like mounts or even framework to fab new mounts wouldve been mid 90's, unfortunately any VIN evidence on the block, my limited background knows to look for, is long gone. Just not sure at this point any of that matters. Kindly want to encourage him to try a pick n pull motor in it before he junks it, Id probably even pay for it considering it would be more of an education than work. have an extra vehicle.....maybe should just hand it over and save the points to the blood pressure. Thank you for your time and consderation. Today im sure to have enough indigestion today to cover everone who decides to read this and becomes nauseous Sly


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 20, 2014, 4:26 AM

Post #8 of 16 (1400 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Some replies may be out of order - sorry on that anyway.


If you can't pull codes on this running this way that alone suggests all sorts of troubles now you say are sure of another engine of different size and no clue if compatible at all or what made it run at all so really a pill to induce vomiting!


Salvage yards would know if any info was known what items fit what but seems even that is lost info.


Always your call. I would take this as junk if you gave it to me personally as where I live you can't even junk a vehicle without proper documentation and a title and doubt info and papers are on target for that.


Just smacks of all kinds of headaches, Tom


Discretesignals
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Aug 20, 2014, 4:30 AM

Post #9 of 16 (1397 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Grand Prix never came with a 3.4L unless your talking about the DOHC 3.4L crapper engine. Sounds like you have a frankenstein. Pretty sure if the PCM and harness wasn't swapped over your going to have some issues. Has this thing every ran right?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 20, 2014, 4:35 AM)


dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 4:40 AM

Post #10 of 16 (1388 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

and yeah It had abt 35K on the not really new-ish motor before this chaos ensued


(This post was edited by dntchke on Aug 20, 2014, 4:46 AM)


dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 4:45 AM

Post #11 of 16 (1386 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

WOW...Serious Frankenstein action. Im completely lost now. took intake manifolds all off. I dont think its a GP motor anymore. I want to say its a Lumina Euro motor but i have a nagging voice saying that the Euro was early enough to be 3.3 not 3400.

And my apologies man. For some reason, I thought I read something else and responded. Either way I meant no disrespect


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 20, 2014, 4:45 AM

Post #12 of 16 (1385 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

If you can find a Grand Prix that came with a 3.4L VIN E engine from the factory, then you would have one of a kind.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


dntchke
User

Aug 20, 2014, 5:12 AM

Post #13 of 16 (1382 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

if its decide this thing should live on...should i put it back to the vin m 3100 its supposed to be? The series II 3800 L67 is supposed to interchange nicely as well and its been great in both Buick Regal's that ive had. Sketchy...dont remember that 3100 working out so hot for the malibu or for that matter I couldnt even guess if the 3.8 and the 3400 are similar size wise. Please
Advise if you have a suggestion


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Aug 20, 2014, 5:33 AM

Post #14 of 16 (1380 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Problem is cars have computer controls for both engine and transmission at least models '96 and newer. What exactly fits what the junk yards have software to or perhaps this monster took a whole wiring and computer controls from another. Some even when exact (doubt this general vintage) you can't just plug in and go but need to have computer for engine and emission controls be taught to communicate.


You did say you couldn't get any codes even to say nothing showed but it was reading? That's messed up one way or another if so.


OK - so if you got the exact correct duplicate engine that belongs in this thing now you don't know who did what to make it run at all worth a sh*t but seems your buddy didn't care if it went forward and backward he was happyCrazy


Now if you want it for parts for another that could be something but sounds like it's about worth what it weighs in metals for scrap in this situation. Year, questionable, VIN if known I question.


Doesn't matter much now but as for engines the 3.1s were either excellent for ages or a problem out of the gate as any could be. 3.8s I've known have been good - all of them but all low mile adult owned and driven. 3.4 not familiar with but at this site lots of gasket issues intake and more and would prefer not that one if a choice for myself.


My first post on this was when yours was showing alone and said RUN!


Do as you see fit just be warned as this just can't be easy to get whole car right,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Aug 20, 2014, 5:50 AM

Post #15 of 16 (1375 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In


In Reply To
if its decide this thing should live on...should i put it back to the vin m 3100 its supposed to be? The series II 3800 L67 is supposed to interchange nicely as well and its been great in both Buick Regal's that ive had. Sketchy...dont remember that 3100 working out so hot for the malibu or for that matter I couldnt even guess if the 3.8 and the 3400 are similar size wise. Please
Advise if you have a suggestion

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

OK, stop with the nonsense posts. The 3.1 and the 3.4 are basically the same engine and probably would swap b utr the 3.8 is a totally different animal.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 20, 2014, 6:24 AM)


GC
User
GC profile image

Aug 20, 2014, 6:17 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1369 views)
Re: 98 Lumina 3.1 with a Grand Prix 3400SFI cranks but no start Sign In

Ok late to the game, but a couple thoughts.

How did the water pump fail?

Pulling a tstat on a 3.4 is a hack head gasket bandaid. Ive seen it done many times to keep air pockets from forming.

It ran just prior to coming apart for the water pump or did it sit for a while?

Looks like youve got something funny going on with fuel pressure. Was the battery fully charged or next to dead?


____________________________________________________
Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob






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