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'97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose


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Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 1:49 PM

Post #1 of 16 (2342 views)
post icon '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

Ok, so I am the girlfriend posting on behalf of my boyfriend and my dad(who recently retired as a master mechanic about 3 months ago)

Me and my boyfriend got a new car, and shortly after it started to overheat and turns out the head-gasket blew. So my dad come to help fix it(we live 300 miles away) and bought a timing belt kit with waterpump, a headgasket kit, and machined the heads. My dad went to put everything back together and started it and said that the timing belt was too loose. He started cursing the machine shop but we called them and they said they couldn't have possibly taken too much off, they said they only took off 4 thousandths of a inch and they said they could have done up to 12.
We measured all the pulleys and they are the correct size and verified all the parts are correct, so at this point we are pretty stumped.

Time is also a factor because I am in college and I need to drive to my finals that are coming up in just 4 days!


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Dec 6, 2013, 2:56 PM

Post #2 of 16 (2330 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

How many teeth are on the replacement belt? How many teeth on the original?





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Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 3:05 PM

Post #3 of 16 (2326 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

I didn't count, but I checked on the internet via model numbers printed on the timing belts themselves and the original and the new one both had the same number. It had 281 teeth.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Dec 6, 2013, 5:52 PM

Post #4 of 16 (2320 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

This is a Legacy Outback and not an Impreza Outback?





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Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 5:53 PM

Post #5 of 16 (2317 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

Yup, its a legacy outback limited eddition


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 6, 2013, 6:09 PM

Post #6 of 16 (2314 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

Machine shop is right that the service limit for machining is .012 inches

The belt should have 281 teeth on it.

Don't think anyone would go through the hassle of swapping a 2.2L in there, which uses a smaller belt, but who knows. That is why I was wondering with the teeth count were on the old belt. Of course, the 2.5L and 2.2L are easy to tell apart because the 2.5 is a DOHC and the 2.2L is a SOHC.

The belt could of been packaged wrong or could be a defect, so teeth count would be important to be sure of on the new belt.





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Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 6:11 PM

Post #7 of 16 (2312 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

So you think I should take it off and manually count the teeth?


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 6, 2013, 6:16 PM

Post #8 of 16 (2310 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

You should, just to be sure. You don't want to be cranking on the engine with the wrong belt, seeing how this is an interference engine.

Here is pic of tooth count between sprockets:







Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 6, 2013, 6:17 PM)


Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 6:18 PM

Post #9 of 16 (2307 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

Ok, I will pass that on to my boyfriend. But to save time just in case the belt isn't a defect. What else could be the issue?


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 6, 2013, 6:27 PM

Post #10 of 16 (2306 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

If all your replacement parts are exactly the same and the installation is correct, the only thing that changed was the surface of the head. You stated they machined only .004 inch. Maybe the heads where machined before, and the service limit is exceeded, but you would think the machine shop would be able to tell that it can't be machined any more. Standard head height is 5.02 inches.

Was the hydraulic tensioner adjuster replaced also?





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Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 6:50 PM

Post #11 of 16 (2299 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

I think so? Here is a brochure of the kit I got(it was the timing belt kit with waterpump)
http://www.gates.com/common/downloads/files/Gates/TCKWPFLYER.pdf

Also, we called the machinist and they made it sound like they did nothing wrong and were careful. I can call back and make a stink about it, but I just wanted to be sure before I did. What could I do to check that the heads were to short?


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 6, 2013, 7:02 PM

Post #12 of 16 (2297 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

Which kit number did you get? Gates makes 3 of them for that engine.

A hydraulic tensioner malfunction could also cause the belt to be loose. Important to be sure the tensioner isn't leaking. If it is the original one, would be wise to replace it. Here is the description of how it works:


Quote
1) Belt tension action
The tensioner adjuster rod (3) is moved to the left by the force of the main spring (6). This causes silicone oil (which is held to constant pressure by compression-spring tension inside the reservoir chamber (9) to push the check ball (5)so that silicone oil flows into the oil-pressure chamber (8).
The momentum which forces the adjuster rod out acts upon the tensioner arm C2 so that the pulley is turned counterclockwise. Thus, timing belt tension is properly maintained.

2) Balance to belt tension
When the timing belt reaction force is balanced by the main spring tension (to push the adjuster rod), the arm is held stationary to maintain constant belt tension.
When the timing belt reaction force increases to such an extent that the belt will be too tight, a small quantity of oil in the oil-pressure chamber (8) gradually returns to the reservoir chamber (9) via the adjuster body-to-rod clearance. This return of oil continually moves the rod until the reaction force of the timing belt balances with main spring force and oil pressure inside the oil-pressure chamber. Thus, belt tension is constantly maintained.



The height of the head would have to be measured to see if it is out of specs. You should call another machine shop to ask how you tell if a head is machined too far on that design.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 6, 2013, 7:03 PM)


Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 7:07 PM

Post #13 of 16 (2294 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

Ok, I will call a place tomorrow.

I remember the night that my dad told me the belt was loose and someone asked him if the tensioner could be back and he said its working, the arm(or plunger, cant remember what he called it) was fully extended and he said that it shouldn't be that extended, and that he thought it wasn't the tensioner. Do you think that with what he said you agree or could something still be wrong?

The part number for the kit is tckwp277b


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 6, 2013, 7:12 PM

Post #14 of 16 (2293 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

If the tensioner is over extended, I'd would agree with your Dad that is probably isn't the tensioner that is the issue. That kit number does include a replacement hydraulic tensioner.


Quote
Belt Tension Adjuster:
Protrusion Of Adjuster Rod .............. 15.4 - 16.4 mm (0.606 - 0.646 inch)
Belt Tensioner:
Spacer Outside Diameter ................................... 16 mm (0.63 inch)
Tensioner Bush Inside Diameter ....................... 16.16 mm (0.6362 inch)
Clearance Between Spacer And Bush:
Standard ......................... 0.117 - 0.180 mm (0.0046 - 0.0071 inch)
Limit ............................................. 0.230 mm (0.0091 inch)
Side Clearance Of Spacer:
Standard ........................... 0.37 - 0.54 mm (0.0146 - 0.0213 inch)
Limit ................................................ 0.8 mm (0.031 inch)






Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Dispiacere
Novice

Dec 6, 2013, 7:14 PM

Post #15 of 16 (2291 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

So what else should I look at besides the head depth or is that about it?


(This post was edited by Dispiacere on Dec 6, 2013, 7:17 PM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 6, 2013, 7:20 PM

Post #16 of 16 (2288 views)
Re: '97 Subaru Outback 2.5L Timing belt is too loose Sign In

I'm out of ideas other than what was provided above. Maybe someone else will chime in.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.






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