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'94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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fl20024
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Nov 10, 2005, 6:49 PM
Post #1 of 8
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'94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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i have a 1994 Chrysler Concorde, 3.3L 201 T MFI engine...roughly 123,000 miles.
Back in early July, my car just died immediately after starting it. It never showed any signs, like it needs maintainence, the check engine light never came on, nothing. I shortly after figured out it was the Crankshaft Sensor. After I replaced that, the engine would start again, but would not idle below 2,000 RPMs or it would stall, and the engine started shakeing a lot.
I did some various work, and replaced various parts, and since, the engine will not start at all, but it turns over just fine, you cant hear or see any problems while cranking.
Awhlie ago, I disassembled some of the top half of the motor, (ie. intake manifold, fuel rail, injectors, egr system, throttle body)
I cleaned the throttle body, checked and cleaned everything else, put new o-rings on since i had the injectors off, replaced all the gaskets to everything else too, got the whole engine reassembled now, and I checked every single wire, hose, connector, anything I can possibly see, as I've had this problem for a long time now. Since I've done that, it won't start anymore, which is my current problem. Ive checked the battery, cleaned the connections, checked the fuses in fuse box, checked the relays in the Power Distrubution Center....I cant find anything at all wrong with the car.
I tried the ignition key method to retrieve error codes from the PCM and the only code I got was 12, which means the power was disconnected within the last 50 ignition cycles. (and 55, which means the test is done)
So far I've replaced the following parts:
Crankshaft Sensor
Camshaft Sensor
EGR Valve & Transducer
Ignition Coil Pack
Automatic Shutdown Relay (ASD)
PCM (ECC)
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DanD
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/ Moderator
Nov 11, 2005, 5:10 AM
Post #2 of 8
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Re: '94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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I have to ask these basic questions, do you have spark to all the cylinders? What is the fuel pressure during cranking? Is there an injector pulse to each injector?
To add to the fuel pressure question we need to know the pressure not just that you can hear the pump running.
Let us know and we may be able to help a little more.
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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fl20024
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Nov 11, 2005, 6:37 AM
Post #3 of 8
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Re: '94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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Its not a compression or fuel problem, but a spark problem.
I've tried several ways to test for spark, one being to just pull a plug out and lay it on the manifold, but no spark in doing that.
I done most all the tests I can do and checked almost everything their is to check, but no luck in finding the spark problem.
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DanD
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Nov 11, 2005, 1:28 PM
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Re: '94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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You could check and see if you have power to the dark green/orange wire at the ignition coil, when the key is first turned on. It will only last for two or three seconds (prime cycle) and then return as you’re cranking the engine.
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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fl20024
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Nov 11, 2005, 3:57 PM
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Re: '94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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I did that today, testing the green/orange wire for power, and a test light on the other 3 wires....no power at all.
no wires are pinched either, and the PCM seems to be working as well. which is what confuses me.
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DanD
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Nov 13, 2005, 1:51 PM
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Re: '94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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I’m at home right now and don’t have access to my repair info, I’ll have a look tomorrow when I’m back at the shop.
You should have battery voltage at the green/orange wire on initial key on for two or three seconds and then during cranking.
Can you hear the ASD click on and off?
Maybe check this wire at the ASD relay if you do have power there, then there’s an open somewhere leaving the ASD going to the coil, fuel injectors and a number of other units.
If there’s not power at the ASD green/orange wire (same as above initial key on and cranking). Then we have to figure out whether the ASD is bad, feed to the ASD is missing, power for the pull-in coil is there or if the computer has the capability of turning the relay on (driver circuit)
I’ll try and post back after I have a look as to what color wire does what.
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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fl20024
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Nov 14, 2005, 2:03 PM
Post #7 of 8
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Re: '94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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I tested the coil pack connector, got no power at all, and the PCM seems to be working just fine, everything powers up when i turn the ignition on and I did a self test via the ignition key method, and that works aswell.
I tested and checked every single relay/fuse in the car and they are all working normally, even the ASD.
Which is whats comfusing me right now, aren't the PCM, ASD, and Ignition Coil Pack all connected to each other? All 3 of those things work and are new, but I'm still getting no power to the Coil Pack at all.
My only idea is it could be a wire, or the whole wireset, unless their's something else connected to the ignition system that controls spark.
(This post was edited by fl20024 on Nov 14, 2005, 2:31 PM)
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DanD
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Nov 15, 2005, 11:00 AM
Post #8 of 8
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Re: '94 Chrysler Concorde; won't start
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Yes the PCM, ASD and the ignition coils are all connected together but each does there own thing in either being controlled or in control of one another.
Maybe if I try and explain how and why things are supposed to function then maybe you’ll get a handle on what next to test.
When the ignition key is turned to the run position the PCM grounds the pull-in coil of the ASD relay, closing the contacts of the ASD allowing battery power to the ignition coil pack, fuel injectors and the alternators field circuit.
After two or three seconds the PCM will remove this ground on the ASD pull-in coil which will open the ASD contacts turning off the power to the coil pack, fuel injectors and alternators field.
When you turn the ignition to the crank position and the engine is cranking, the PCM receives an RPM signal from the crank and cam sensors. The PCM will then again ground the ASD relays pull-in coil allowing power to the coil pack, ect.
What I’m going to suggest to do is to make sure that the ASD is receiving the proper feeds and grounds, you may have to get to the underside of the power distribution box to confirm what terminal and what color of wire is where.
Once you can see the wires at the ASD you should find a dark blue/yellow that is the control (ground) wire from the PCM. It will only have a ground on it during the first couple of seconds after the ignition is turned to the run position and should return after the engine is cranked.
Next is a dark blue/white wire it should have power on it anytime the ignition is in the run position and during cranking.
Next is a red/white wire it should have power on it at all times ignition off, ignition in the run position and during cranking.
Last is the dark green/orange it should have power on it during initial key on for a couple of seconds and then again during cranking.
As for there not being any power at the ignition coil the only wire that should have power is the dark green/orange which it receives from the ASD relay.
The black, white and red/yellow wires are coil driver wires and will not have power to them with the connector unplugged. Drivers are the computers on off switches that supply a path to ground and in this case for the coil primary circuit.
Let me know what you find.
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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