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2006 Sebring multiple problems / related?


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Divik
Novice

Feb 16, 2020, 8:23 PM

Post #1 of 11 (446 views)
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2006 Sebring 2.4 Here's the timeline, timing belt broke, (I know, I know change every 100k, but I just played stupid and didn't think about it) towed it to our regular mechanic. He tore it all the way down, to make sure that nothing was damaged. The only thing he found was either the cam shaft sensor or the crank shaft sensor had a microscopic scratch. He said it would probably trip the check engine, but shouldn't hurt anything else. I agreed to wait until we saw if it would cause a problem before replacing it, considering what I was already paying him. He had let the car idle for a while in his shop no problems, he drove it low speed a couple of blocks, no problem.

So we picked the car up at 5:00 on Friday afternoon, and started home. First thing was the check engine light was on, no biggie. Then we found out the cruise no longer worked, then as we started up on the highway, I stepped down on it to get up to speed, it hit 3K rpm, and started missing, and bucking like crazy. Starting off from a red light, hit 3k rpm and it bucks and misses.

Until you let all the way off, then you can ease back down as long as it doesn't hit 3K. However if your running like 70 mph, and go to speed up to pass, it will sail right past 3K with no problems. It's like as long as your not in passing/second/third (however many gears it's got) gear it's fine. It's just under a hard load it acts up.

so I mean all three things happened at the same time, so I want to say they are all related. I could be wrong. We did take it back by, and he checked looked at it, and says he didn't see anything wrong that could cause any of that. He was willing to tear it back down, but he would have to charge us, but would cut us a deal and checking the cruise would be separate because he did nothing that could cause that. But it was working when the engine quit. So it happened either when the engine quit, or he unplugged something, or something. He sort of admitted without admitting that the missing could be his fault, I feel he should cover the whole cost of the second tear down. I don't know for sure but the missing could be because of the scratched sensor, even though he says it's not bad enough for that.

My question(s) would be, could everything be because of one event, or mistake? If so would another complete tear down be necessary, or would you have an idea of the cause? What could I check to see what might be wrong?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 17, 2020, 1:05 AM

Post #2 of 11 (433 views)
Re: 2006 Sebring multiple problems / related? Sign In

? CEL came on right away. Why didn't you turn around right then and go back and leave it to finish?


Quote "> I feel he should cover the whole cost of the second tear down. <"
Sounds right or whatever it takes to make it good and choose some plan. As it sits it seem just an open ticket money pit perhaps this engine shouldn't have been fixed at all from first teardown and inspection remains unknown,


T



Divik
Novice

Feb 17, 2020, 4:21 AM

Post #3 of 11 (427 views)
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Thank you for your reply, here's a little more information.


In Reply To
? CEL came on right away. Why didn't you turn around right then and go back and leave it to finish?


As I said, he told us the cel would probably come on due to that sensor being scratched, it didn't affect how it ran (but he only did low speed driving in a neighborhood). So I wasn't really worried about the cel, not the first car I've driven an 100k miles or more with the cel permanently on. I'vee done bussiness with him for a couple of years and he's always known what he was talking about, and did a good job. But, I feel this time he made a mistake.



In Reply To
As it sits it seem just an open ticket money pit perhaps this engine shouldn't have been fixed at all from first teardown and inspection remains unknown,


I really don't think it's the engine itself, (I'm not real familiar with engines so forgive me if I say something stupid), maybe it could be a gasket leaking air, or a vacuum leak that cruise is still vacuum controlled, could also be affecting engine. Or an engine speed sensor or something, like I said, I don't really know that much about engines, but I have picked up a few things over the years. I used to have a Chevy that about once a year I had to replace a vacuum line on the injected/carburetor thing (can't remember what it's called), because it would do the same thing. But, the mechanic says this car is completely electronic no vacuum to the injectors.


T



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 17, 2020, 4:33 AM

Post #4 of 11 (423 views)
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Don't compare this to another totally. CEL warnings run for 100k it wasn't one of 100s of things that would or could kill the thing. We don't know with this just now here-say of what you were told.


It should have been totally checked before you got it back. That warning PLUS is runs like crap is in fact causing more harm by delaying this. That's why I said take it right back it's not done a mistake or not.


Mistakes happen no question and you both move on with that. It's your call but clearly if you keep using this the new extended problems may or are not the shop or tech's fault it should have gone right back,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 17, 2020, 6:22 AM

Post #5 of 11 (412 views)
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Quote
The only thing he found was either the cam shaft sensor or the crank shaft sensor had a microscopic scratch. He said it would probably trip the check engine, but shouldn't hurt anything else


You're being fed a line of bull. Either the sensor works or it doesn't. If either of those sensors are bad, the car will likely not run and a quick scan of the computer would tell him right away why the light is on. The cam sensor is on the back of the engine so it should have no relation to the timing belt.

This engine is not considered an interference engine meaning the valve don't immediately bend when the belt breaks although if the cams are moved with the belt off they can hit each other and get bent.

He also needs to find out what he did to cause the cruise not to work. It didn't just happen.

the first thing he needs to do is run leakdown tests to determine if any valves got bent and read the trouble codes.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Feb 17, 2020, 6:23 AM)


Divik
Novice

Feb 17, 2020, 11:56 AM

Post #6 of 11 (399 views)
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Thank you, that's about what I was thinking but I wanted a professional opinion.


In Reply To

Quote
and a quick scan of the computer would tell him right away why the light is on. .


I detected bullSh!t when he said this, and I've never ran a code reader, but his comment was the code reader said "either the cam or crank sensor". He wasn't sure which was which.

He's always done a great job, until this time. We've been using him since he first opened a few year ago, and we always got same day service. If it could be fixed in a day that is. He would put everything else on hold to do our car. Every other shop around here, you drop off the car, and wait two weeks at least before they even touch it. But I don't think I can use this guy again, not after this.

Thanks again


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Feb 17, 2020, 12:04 PM

Post #7 of 11 (396 views)
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There is no such code that says you have either a Cam or Crank sensor is bad. Codes don't say any specific part is bad. They tell you about a specific situation that requires further investigation.

It may have been a code that described a correlation between the 2 sensors which would indicate something other than a bad sensor.

Have the codes read and post the numbers here and we can go from there. Autozone will do it for free.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Divik
Novice

Feb 21, 2020, 5:56 PM

Post #8 of 11 (355 views)
Re: 2006 Sebring multiple problems / related? Sign In

Ok, finally managed to get the diagnostic done, here is exactly what it says

P0016-Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation - -Bank 1 Sensor A

Camshaft Position Sensor
How it works
blah blah blah

Crankshaft Position Sensor
How it works
blah blah blah


I noticed the other day that it starts to act up at 3100 rpm every time, under load (starting from a dead stop, or merging onto a highway), it starts bucking and missing. However if your on the highway running 70 to 75, and you go to gently speed up, and you pass 3100 rpm, your fine, it's just when you are under hard acceleration. You have to completely let off the gas pedal to get it to stop, then you can ease back down on it, as long as you don't down shift it.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Feb 21, 2020, 6:02 PM

Post #9 of 11 (353 views)
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That's what I expected. That pretty much means the timing belt is installed wrong and he should have known.

The computer knows when the Crankshaft is at point "A", the Camshaft should be at point "B" and it is not so it is likely out of time. There is nothing wrong with either sensor. They are doing what they were engineered to do.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Divik
Novice

Feb 22, 2020, 4:21 AM

Post #10 of 11 (331 views)
Re: 2006 Sebring multiple problems / related? Sign In

That is not what I needed to hear. OK, I'll figure out something. Thank you for your time, and your expertise. I do appreciate it.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Feb 22, 2020, 4:54 AM

Post #11 of 11 (329 views)
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You're welcome. Let us know what happens



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Feb 22, 2020, 4:55 AM)






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