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2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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rpp
User
Aug 14, 2013, 8:28 PM
Post #1 of 24
(7861 views)
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2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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I have a:
2001
Toyota
Celica
GTS
1.8 L
139000 Miles
Problems:
- Engine stalled on highway suddenly, multiple attempts to start it before it finally turned over and idled. It would eventually die and/or not start after many many attempts.
- Swapped ignition coil 4 (from left to right) with ignition coil 3 while on side of highway. Car started, idled, revved well even at 4 or 5k while in neutral. Thought problem was solved. Managed to get to work 5 miles away while engine misfired/stalled along the way. Prob revved up to 3k.
- Next few days, misfires/stalls(restarts while driving) would happen frequently. Enough to scare me. Pressing in clutch would save engine from stalling usually. Anything above 2.5k revs or moderate acceleration would induce misfires/stalls while driving.
- No codes other than MAF, VAF, IAT but that's because I disconnected the MAF while the car was running. Never had misfires codes. (I did 4 years ago when one of the connectors to the ignition coil wasn't seated right and would vibrate off at higher rpm. Just clipped the connector back in right when I discovered it was loose.
- Tried going up a 30 degree hill. Engine died miserably. I tried going up in reverse and I made it up no sweat... How on earth does it not stall in reverse!????
Driving:
I would accelerate very slowly and go up to 2.5k. This didn't introduce misfires/stalls while driving. Happened rarely if lucky.
Attempted Fixes:
-Tried a new ignition coil in all 4 spots separately. Misfiring/stalls became very frequent at any rpm. Much worse than with old coil.
-Swapped all old iridium spark plugs with new iridium ones. Was able to drive up to about 3k rev with a bit less misfires. Was able to accelerate a bit faster. (On the right track ay??)
- Swapped all old ignition coils with new ones. Misfires happened occasionally. Stalls went away. Acceleration was great up to 4 or 5k rpm. Around 5 or 6k rpm, rpm needle would blip up 0.5 or 1k rpm above expected and come back down and repeat over and over while on a steady peddle press. Couldn't hit LIFT (extra 40 hp in the GTS version above 6.5k rpm).
What I think is the problem now:
1. Fuel starvation (Injectors or fuel pump)
2. Ignition coil wires
3. Tranny or clutch (problems occur for all gears. and clutch grips well)
4. Possible fuel contamination (need premium for GTS version, filled at two gas stations to make sure gasoline was okay)
Let me know what you all think. Hope I was detailed enough.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2013, 4:33 AM
Post #2 of 24
(7837 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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It isn't going to run right driving around with the MAF unplugged.
You need to plug everything back in that you disconnected. Clear the engine controller of codes stored. Then see which code(s) come back. Write down the numbers.
When it doesn't want to start you need to follow the steps on this page:
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/...LL_NOT_START_P75655/
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2013, 4:37 AM
Post #3 of 24
(7835 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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Keep revving this to 5,000 without load and you won't have an engine to worry about for long,
T
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rpp
User
Aug 15, 2013, 5:40 AM
Post #4 of 24
(7827 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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I disconnected the MAF when I was dead on the highway. I cleaned it about two months ago so I unplugged it while engine was running to see what happens. Engine died right after. I plugged it back in right after and started up the engine again after. That's when I got the MAF, VAF, and IAT codes. These codes were my doing, not the engine.
I don't have any codes at all. Even with the misfires/stalls/blips, still no codes.
I revved in neutral to rule out engine failure for any condition or just failure under load. Under load seems to cause the problems.
I'll look at your link but I don't have engine starting problems. I have issues at high rpm under load
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2013, 6:08 AM
Post #5 of 24
(7824 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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If misfiring you should have at least a code pending.
With all you've done I didn't see a fuel pressure test.
Iridium Plugs? Many engines really like exactly what is called for.
Revs: Go easy sport - valves and bearings kinda like some load on them,
T
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rpp
User
Aug 15, 2013, 3:30 PM
Post #6 of 24
(7809 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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That's what I expected... to get a misfire code but I got none ever during this whole ordeal... and it seems like the ignition system is okay. The only reason things seem a bit better is because the spark plugs are firing stronger, but their still is a problem... the main culprit I must say.
I think it has to do with the fuel pressure... Why?
Because when I went in reverse up a very steep hill, it never stalled. But going up it frontwards it stalled maybe 1/3 the way up the massive hill(driveway).
It didnt stall in reverse because the fuel pressere was much higher near the front of the tank when I went in reverse up the hill... If the fuel pump, lines whatever else is in the front of the tank, it makes perfect sense for why I made it up the hill in reverse. Fuel pressure was compensated by gravity so the fuel pump didn't need to work as hard.
Am I on target here??
I'll go to the mechanic who said it was the ignition coils and demand to get a fuel pressure test free of charge. He charged me $100 for his supposed 1hr of labor to diagnosis that it was the supposed ignition coils which I replaced and still have issues.
There is a sticker right on the side of the engine metal valve cover that says iridium, so I'm all good with that.
oki, wont rev without load anymore. Didn't know it could hurt.
Is $100 alot?????
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rpp
User
Aug 15, 2013, 3:45 PM
Post #8 of 24
(7803 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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So explain to me how I went up a step hill in reverse like a pro, but couldn't even manage a second of acceleration going forward??? I'm all ears mate.
I think it does even though I don't even know where to find the fuel pump or how the fuel delivery system works. I'm assuming a motor with some sort of water wheel on the rotor spins and pulls gasoline forward, whether externally or internally inside the pump. If there is higher pressure due to a larger amount of gasoline by the port, the pressure is higher and could theoretically make it easier for the pump to propel gasoline forward.
I'll get the pressure checked, and report back.
Let me know if there are any other things I should look for, like maybe checking the injectors and cleaning them or something.
(This post was edited by rpp on Aug 15, 2013, 3:46 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2013, 3:48 PM
Post #9 of 24
(7797 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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I didn't say you didn't have a pressure change. I said gravity had nothing to do with it. Movement of the fuel cooling the fuel pump would be a better explanation but I'm not there to check your car.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2013, 3:56 PM
Post #10 of 24
(7796 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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Fuel pressure is primal to at least rule out. Gravity means nothing to this - Jeez - some Model A's were gravity fed and backing up did work back in the 1930s if you were way too low on fuel.
There should be a port to test pressure on rail at engine or you put one in line to see if it stays in spec range and hold the pressure when shut down. Electric fuel pumps don't like running low on fuel and it's old enough - some last tons longer some don't,
T
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rpp
User
Sep 14, 2013, 9:55 PM
Post #11 of 24
(7718 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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I was away for a while.
I checked the fuel line coming from the firewall to the injectors and found no port. There is only one connection from a soft to hard line in between where the hard line goes into this flanged metal connector attached to the soft line.
I have a fuel pressure guage, but it doesn't have the necessary adapters, so I am giving up with measuring the pressure.
I bought a new pump and filters and such. I will install it soon and see what happens.
I also opened up the valve cover bout 2 months ago to fix a broken lift bolt. I never replaced the value cover gasket, so I plan to do that first and see if that fixes things.
I am also going to replace the exhaust manifold gasket as well.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 15, 2013, 7:14 AM
Post #12 of 24
(7710 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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Kind of strange that you would spend all that money and time on replacing the fuel pump, but you don't even know what is causing your symptoms.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 15, 2013, 7:16 AM)
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rpp
User
Sep 15, 2013, 8:22 AM
Post #13 of 24
(7704 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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Mechanic told me it was a coil problem, so I replaced all 4. Improved conditions slightly, but still had issues. So I am going back to my original coils.
I read plenty about fuel pumps and I think it is the main problem.
My vehicle has the first three symptoms.
link deleted ............... not allowed
Plus, I have a nitro R/C car and I have had experience tuning it for rich/lean conditions. When it was lean, throttle was delayed and it would stutter during acceleration.
Who knows, I may be wrong. You can laugh at me after I attempt the fuel pump fix :p
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 15, 2013, 9:03 AM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 15, 2013, 8:30 AM
Post #14 of 24
(7702 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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Why would I laugh or ridicule you for something like that? It is your vehicle and you can do to it whatever you want.
Maybe replacing the pump may solve your issue. Would be nice to look at some test results to confirm the pump is the culprit though, but I guess if you don't have the equipment to test it, your left to taking guesses. Let us know how it turns out.
Word of advice:
When you go to replace the pump, look inside the tank. If you see contamination, you might have to pull the tank and wash it out. The #1 cause of premature pump failure after replacement is the new pump sucking up junk floating around at the bottom.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 15, 2013, 8:37 AM)
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rpp
User
Sep 15, 2013, 9:46 AM
Post #15 of 24
(7692 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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I wanted to be tongue in cheek...
I'd like to check the pressure cause I never did it, but I'm not going to waste more money trying to get it done.
I'm hoping the symptoms I mentioned will help others diagnose a bad fuel pump in their vehicles, without the need for a pressure check.
Yikes. I can access the fuel tank from under the rear seats. I'll take a look, but I have about 14 gallons in the tank, so I would need to suck it all out somehow. Thanks for the tip.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 15, 2013, 11:33 AM
Post #18 of 24
(7683 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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Pic may not show but I've used just a plain line fuel pump, 4-6 PSI or so that can be powered by a jumper pack, filters fuel too. Looks like this.......
You just get enough hose, clamps and I use a 12v power plug. It's slow but works fine. Trouble can be can you store the fuel removed? If you know some high capacity vehicle that's low you can use it and just transfer the gas. Some you can't get all the fuel out so use your head. Duh - you are dealing with fuel.
There are also drill pumps not used by me but says they will tolerate fuel. I think those are called Jack Rabbits? You'll spend more on hose, clamps and safely wire the electric one if that shows?
T
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 15, 2013, 11:38 AM
Post #19 of 24
(7678 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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Most of the Asian cars the fuel pumps are accessible from inside the cabin. You probably won't need to drain the fuel. The only problem you have to be careful of is not dumping gas all over the interior when you remove the pump and having a pissed off wife or GF.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 15, 2013, 11:40 AM)
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rpp
User
Sep 23, 2013, 6:02 PM
Post #20 of 24
(7647 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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You are right about that mate. Fuel pump made no difference. :/
So this weekend, I swapped the fuel pump, fuel pump filter, fuel filter, gas tank seal. (The tank access panel is under the rear seat. Very easy to get to. Only 4 bolts. Saw someone do it on youtube for my vehicle.
Same problems persisted. Stalls at idle all of a sudden in the beginning, then it would stabilize after maybe 10 restarts and then idle would be ok.
If I gave more than 3k rpm it would stall for a second and restart. Hard acceleration was hit or miss. It would stall sometimes.
Dad mentioned to check injectors. I sprayed starter fluid on them. Then compressed air. (Yes, I'm pretty sure neither were a good idea.)
Anyway, car started after I put them back for about 20 seconds and then died. Couldn't start it anymore after that.
About 3 hrs later, I realized I had an experienced inspection so I had to push the car up the hill. I though hey, why not check if it starts again. It did and I managed to get it up the driveway.
I'm getting new injectors because I don't know what sort of damage I did to them so far.
It seems that changing the coils, spark plugs, and fuel pump seemed to make the issue a little less pronounced, but problems still persist.
I have one new coil that I put in the 3rd slot from left. If I use the old coil, the stalls are more pronounced. So, now I'm thinking of buying the coils again.
And/or just go to a mechanic that will actually do a real diagnostic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Higher than normal resistance in the pump's power or ground circuits.
(Didn't check that, but can try this weekend.)
Clogged injectors
(getting new ones anyway so shouldn't be an issue)
Restriction in fuel supply line
(I busted the o-rings on the injectors initially. Gasoline was spraying everywhere, so I know the injectors were getting ALOT of fuel.)
Pump circuit control issue
(Don't know how to assess this)
Faulty fuel pressure regulator
(Can't check without checking pressure I guess. Might try it now.)
Improper fuel injector pulse width modulation by the
ECU per engine load and rpm for some reason (This would be a disaster. I don't understand how that would happen, unless some poor feedback from a sensor.)
Tank contamination causing restriction in the pump
inlet screen or clogged fuel filter (Filters are new now, and the tank looked clear when I peaked inside.)
(This post was edited by rpp on Sep 23, 2013, 6:27 PM)
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rpp
User
Sep 23, 2013, 6:57 PM
Post #22 of 24
(7633 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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I want to mention, I changed the valve cover gasket before swapping the pump. I opened the valve cover a few months ago to fix a broken lift bolt. I thought the gasket might have caused an issue so I put a new one in, but it didn't do much else.
I'll try the starter fluid if it won't start. Thanks mate.
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rpp
User
Oct 6, 2013, 5:46 PM
Post #23 of 24
(7574 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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So guess what the problem was mates....
My dad put in the new injectors. He started the car, and then went to move the foam that kept the wires from touching the manifold and the engine died. He wiggled the wires more after starting it again and again it died.
So long story short, the ground wires for the injectors (two other sensors I don't know) and perhaps the ignition coils were super loose. He tightened the two bolts that held the ground wires down, and voila, no more stalls on bumps and over 2.5k rpm... So main problem is fixed.
Now, I got another problem. The car takes at least 7-8 seconds to turn over now. Sounds very painful. I get codes saying multiple misfires and cylinder 1 misfire within a few seconds of the engine turning over.
I replaced the fuel pump and filters for it, and the injectors. Could this cause turn over issues?
Plus, I failed inspection because the O2 and emission sensors were "Not Ready" according to their scanner, so they told me to touch nothing and drive more and come back and they will check again as a courtesy.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 6, 2013, 6:26 PM
Post #24 of 24
(7571 views)
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Re: 2001 Toyota Celica GTS Engine Blips/Stalls/Misfire
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New problem ................ new question
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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