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1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal


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wdoyle2410
User

Nov 20, 2015, 2:20 AM

Post #1 of 24 (1766 views)
1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Hi all, my first post on here.
Been having some problems with my 1985 SR5 4Runner, has the 2.0L 3y petrol engine. I've had it for about 3 months and was running beautifully until about 2 weeks ago when all of a sudden when driving, I took my foot of the accelerator to slow down and then put it back down and as soon as I touched the pedal it almost died, would have died if I kept my foot down. Got it towed home and left it the night went out the next day and started it up and it drove absolutely fine. It happened again a week ago whilst driving. I replaced the fuel filter which seemed to fix it for a few days until it did it again. I have installed an AcuSpark electronic ignition system in the distribute and the timing is set to the specified 8* btdc.
So just to clarify, it starts fine hot or cold, idles fine but when I touch the gas pedal the slightest amount it will die, if I really step on the gas pedal it still dies. Only way to get revs up are to constantly pump gas pedal.
Hope you can help,
Will.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 20, 2015, 3:02 AM

Post #2 of 24 (1754 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Hi - I don't think this exact version and engine layout was sold to the US so quite limited for details on this.
Obviously it's age is a factor for about any issue but it runs at all so we have a start.


Why did you mess with the ignition system? That's now the most likely problem and would put it all back to as designed originally.
Guess - could be a very late point distributor or some combo or points with a capacitor assist set up OE to the thing. Just can't know.
It may also have a late carburetor most of which were troublesome. If fuel injected this pumping of the accelerator isn't pumping fuel but fooling the thing with rapid request changes for engine speed/power.
First - put ignition back to OE. It was designed to run that way and will run better than some kit set up.
Second - You said a new fuel filter seemed to help for a few days. Take it back off and inspect fuel from inlet side into a glass jar to see if it's already dirty or even water mixed in? It's old - fuel and anything to do with it doesn't like getting old.


If this now 31 model year old vehicle did a lot of sitting around there will be problems that crop up to tend to. I strongly suggest not altering the original systems anytime soon or without very well known changes designed by Toyota not some fly by night aftermarket anything.


If carbureted you might think of adding a fuel filter that you can see thru or drain or might need to clean out fuel system entirely now disturbed and using fuel it may not run well on vs fuel sold when newer?


T



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 20, 2015, 3:49 AM

Post #3 of 24 (1748 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Thanks for the reply. Sorry also should have said I have already drained the fuel tank and got a bit of dirt out of it, I'm unsure whether this would have had an effect. The problem was happening before the electronic ignition but I will change it back just to confirm that's not it. It has a mechanical fuel pump and carburettor. Also the problem is only intermittent. I will turn it on one day and it will drive fine and another day it will only idle and then stall. My searching has left me thinking it could be a vacuum leak, clogged needle valve or fuel problem.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 20, 2015, 4:37 AM

Post #4 of 24 (1741 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

OK - This is late for carb and most were horribly expensive if you can find parts or whole new and highly subject to troubles but might not be the issue right now.


Cleaning fuel tank? What kind of dirt did you get out? You can't really get it all but if rust you'll know it will stick to a magnet pick up tool as flakes or mud. May need new tank along the way. They should have baffles inside so can't really or easily clean them out and rust if so there are some extreme things but new is much more practical.
BTW - you remain anonymous but moderator view shows signal came from AU which does or did sell totally different vehicles some by same name some not as to the US and Canada is where issues for looking anything up is on YOU now.


Think about fuel. The behavior does seem fuel related. Check that filter again. Think if you wish depending on dirt + type an approach of a second filter or what you could do. Anywhere do keep fuel under pressure in metal line from pump to carb not rubber hose.
BTW - most would like 4-6 PSI and should check both pressure and volume from pump into a clean container even if just cranking engine for short times like no more than 15 seconds then a 2 minute cool down for starter motor.


More: Try to get carb #s off the thing so you can search parts or kits for it. This "idle fine but take no power" suggests not enough fuel available at carb bowl OR it has an "accelerator" pump in some fashion to squirt extra fuel for changing speeds that you can actually see looking down carb but do that with it stone cold please. It will only squirt a couple to 3 times and empty its source in a non running engine.


There is also a sock where fuel is picked up that should be seen if you removed the fuel gauge. It too could be clogged beyond hope? Some easy some you take tank out to even get there. Know you have parts available and try hard not to break anything.


Can't use heat for fuel things so suggest a product called Power Blaster sold here nicknamed "PB" by most. Great as a penetrating oil quite strong so careful where it goes or what it gets on.
Comment only: If this vehicle is quite rusty in general think hard about spending too much on it. Look at frame integrity. Some similar to this had fatal problems mostly from salts used on roads but at the age could still have trouble with any moisture, mud. Worth good look.
He -site is greatly on EST (Eastern Time Zone) so more active for those times. I just happen to be awake more at night than some. Just means others chiming in you may have wait some time.


Do some more checks and observations. Glad to better know what this is now,


Tom



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 20, 2015, 4:57 AM

Post #5 of 24 (1736 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

The dirt from the fuel tank just seemed like small bits of mud, no metal flakes or anything like that just mud/dirt. Yeah I'm from Australia, struggled to find any Australian forums that could help. Will replace with new filter and see what happens. Disconnected fuel line from carby and cranked engine, fuel came out, not a high pressure but a decent flow. Accelerator pump seems to be working. Fuel shirts into the carb when I pump accelerator. How do I check how much fuel is in the cab bowl? And how much should there be in there?
Will look into the fuel sock.
The vehicle doesn't have any rust, amazing for its age. But saying that I don't want to spend lots to keep it running, but it just seems like it should be a simple fix because it runs beautifully most of the time and then one day out of 5 it will stall really badly.
Thanks for your help so far.

Will


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 20, 2015, 6:00 AM

Post #6 of 24 (1728 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Now I'm 1/2 asleep! That mud is rust. Would look like milk chocholate mud and said it will pick up on a magnet.


There are magnetic pick up tools of all sorts and reasons, one for points by chance. one end to hold screws the other if you drop them has the magnetTongue.


Fuel out well at carb is a good sign. Takes some extra fuel line to pump that into a glass jar but would rather see before the fuel filter and dumped out even newer now.


Rust in tank is many times from water that settles on the bottom and stays there on even unrusted vehicles. It's just moisture from the air/condensation. The alcohols used in fuels here and perhaps there should mix up water with it's rust into the fuel now.


Flakes would degrade to mud. The rust from external reasons rusts tanks at top and seams. Also the ring the hold the fuel gauge and now fuel gauge and pump which new ones come with.
That mud rust can get into carb's fuel bowl and if the day comes you can take it apart same magnet pulls the mud out and clean the heck out of the carb with new gaskets as needed and diaphragms now too old to be good or I'd be shocked.
So - what to do for right now today or soon for you? Put another fuel filter in it just anyway as it worked for a while before and no harm plus info taking new one out and checking there.


Need to know if rust mud is part of the issue. Other might be fuel pump itself also diaphragms but since you saw fuel come out well probably not yet but will in some time.


Just a warning while messing with fuel things that use threaded flare nuts and such. DO NOT USE THAT WHITE TEFLON PLUMBER'S TAPE EVER! Nothing dissolves it, that isn't where fuel is sealed anyway and in taking one apart it shards and can clog down the line and must be blow out or fished out with super fine wire!


Keep at it. I'll be here when I can and this issue will end. Best thing is vehicle is rust free so you say. Parts will be a hunt for some,


Tom



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 20, 2015, 5:13 PM

Post #7 of 24 (1712 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

so i went out this morning and started it up, no problems, took it for a drive for around 15 minutes, ran beautifully, no issues at all. what i'm finding hardest is that the problem isn't constant, because if i replace something i'm unsure if it has fixed it or if it's just running well at the time.
thinking a carby rebuild is next. i can buy a full rebuild kit (gaskets, needle valves etc.) for around $120AUD or for a bit less than $200AUD i can buy a whole new carburettor. do you think it is worth rebuilding or just buy a brand new one?
thanks
Will


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 20, 2015, 5:21 PM

Post #8 of 24 (1710 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

I haven't checked the exchange rate but it the NEW carb is really NEW and not rebuilt I'd go for that if you want the best bet for this vehicle and KEEP the old one.
Some of these are really nasty to redo yourself and don't always come out right. Neither do some bought rebuilt.


Try to know what's wrong as best you can. At the age I don't think a NEW carb if vehicle is a keeper is a bad thing even if not the whole problem,


T



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 20, 2015, 5:31 PM

Post #9 of 24 (1701 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

the carburetor is stated as new, will confirm before purchase. i have never rebuilt or done anything to a carby other than spray carby cleaner in it from the top so i am thinking a new one is the best way to go.
will keep driving it as much as possible and see if i can find a pattern to when it starts to happen.
the vehicle was bought to be a project and a keeper so i think the new carb is a good idea.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 20, 2015, 5:45 PM

Post #10 of 24 (1696 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

A good carb is critical to a great running engine and a wild pest to redo one to get it right on the last years of them especially.
Of course if the engine isn't any good or vehicle any good it would be a waste.
Just FYI - I think this carb new for last years they were on US bound cars would probably cost $500-$650USD! They just got too complicated and added things that made them impossible to comply with emissions regulations and still run well brand new whole cars!


Tom



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 21, 2015, 11:50 PM

Post #11 of 24 (1671 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Decided I will pull the carb apart and clean it all out, I'm thinking it could be some dirt or rust in the fuel bowl that gets stuck in a valve every now and then. And if I can't fix it I'll end up buying a new one anyway.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 22, 2015, 12:26 AM

Post #12 of 24 (1666 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Go for it. Same tool mentioned above will pull rust mud out of fuel bowl. See if you can get and print a diagram with specs for the thing. Near all top can come off alone leaving middle and bottom on and do quite a bit from there for cleaning and checking.
Try not to bend anything.


There's a pretty good chance this isn't the first time or first carb on this also. Get any info and #s off of it you can if/when a replacement may be needed.


You may find parts on it that are forced not to be adjustable via use of rivets, hardened metal caps over things and so on. Rebuild kits would come with screws where rivets got drilled out or plug knocked out instructions on how without breaking anything but the tamper proof item usually idle mixture screws too many folks messed with to cover up some other problem but it prevents you from cleaning those type things out.


Find out what you can about new. It may not have any tamper resistant anything if you in fact do have an original will be a tad different,


T



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 22, 2015, 9:50 PM

Post #13 of 24 (1650 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Thanks for the help so far Tom. As I was removing the carby this morning I noticed that the hose, I believe it is a vacuum hose, that goes from the carb to the distributor had a hole in it right at the carb. Could this have been causing my problems? Don't want to pull it apart if that could be all it was.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 23, 2015, 12:57 AM

Post #14 of 24 (1645 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

THAT MOST CERTAINLY COULD BE MOST OF THE TROUBLE. In fact check all vacuum hose that can be acquired by the foot or roll as needed and not expensive. You should request or see that it's fuel tolerant and vacuum tolerant.
Trick: When a hose is on something plastic which is now brittle cut the hose with a razor like an Exacto Knife and peel if off.
Two high volume vacuum hoses would be to a PCV and another to the power brake booster must be in good shape.
Bet some or many have already been done. Look at them. If only bad at an end assess the rest of one and some you might just cut off 1/2 inch and be fine. Just don't mix up where they go so do any one at a time. If you think they are already mixed up or wrong now it's going to get difficult to find out where some smaller ones should go.
Bear with me as my guess is this is much like set ups sold to the US 10 years older than this. Also know that there were NOT that many Asian type cars around yet at all in 1975 sold new. Transition years of very typical 2-3 ton American cars that sucked fuel like a cruise ship - trust me, I owned many!
Just FYI, I speak in English measures not metric unless stated clearly so no confusion. Your Toyota is 100% metric nuts, bolts for everything but lug nuts for wheels and spark plug sizes for the hex not the threads.
Fix that hose and let me know what changes happen and should right away but general rule is vacuum to distributors is only for part throttle not much or any at total idle speed on purpose,


T



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Nov 23, 2015, 12:58 AM)


wdoyle2410
User

Nov 23, 2015, 1:14 AM

Post #15 of 24 (1639 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

The hole is about a 1/2 inch from the end attached to the carby so will nip the end off tomorrow and see how it runs then remove the hose and see how it runs then, if it shows the signs I had before. If makes a difference will go over all vac hoses. Have been reading other pages where people have removed theses hoses for various reasons so I'm unsure if it will be my problem but I'm hopeful, much easier than pulling apart the carby!


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 23, 2015, 3:31 AM

Post #16 of 24 (1631 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

I'm back. Yes cut it off and if enough hose do eliminate that. Don't take the carby apart so fast until obvious things are out of the scene.
Yes on very few items you might remove a hose or plug one usually because you don't want to fix something it really should have. It should need all of them or they wouldn't have put them there in the first place.
Hose to distributor should go to carb mid body of carb. What that means is it's likely catching a "Venturi" effect vacuum which is created by air speed thru carb and changes its timing that way perhaps many degrees. If it couldn't it could run lousy or if sudden engine speed changes bog down or stall so these things matter. Total leaks are usually better off plugged off than left leaking but only for the time it takes to get new hose as needed.


Auto parts or some hardware for hose. Again look for rating of it for fuel and vacuum. Super cheap plain rubber would collapse or with oil or fuel fumes just go to mush.
Sizes common: 3/16th I.D. hose and 3/8th or 10mm is about the same. Also check out vacuum splices, "Ts" may be used here or there and break - just know who has what. Hose should be marked for what it is or at least on the roll if sold that way.
No fish tank hose is really the concern. If unsure at your easiest outlet buy an inch of it and put it in gasoline in a jar even add some carb cleaner and see if it reacts or what.


One more is to have carb cleaner spray with tube handy now all the time if not now time to have things at the ready,


Tom



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 24, 2015, 12:52 AM

Post #17 of 24 (1575 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Cut it off and tested again. Had no effect on the engine whether I had it on or off so pretty certain that wasn't my issue.
Decided to pull apart carb, so separated it all and there was a decent but of 'muddy rust' in the fuel bowl and the whole inside was caked with carbon so cleaned it all and cleaned all the jets. Got it all back together and it's running a hell of a lot better, can't be certain I fixed it as it could just be having a 'good' moment but I feel confident it was the issue.
Thanks for your help, will let you know if I keep having the issue


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Nov 24, 2015, 1:41 AM

Post #18 of 24 (1573 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Sounds like progress - no waste in new vacuum hoses ever if bad but the muddy/crusty/rust has to go. On that it may also be on the plugs now. New OE plugs would always be best but might try if they look good but rust on the white porcelain to use same carb cleaner and blow them dry but don't do them all at once unless ready for new as it could short them.


Don't forget fuel filters check till no more rust comes out of them or problem will start over again but easier. Rust mud should stay mud not crust up unless it dried and was hot.
Keep at it,


T



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 24, 2015, 1:53 AM

Post #19 of 24 (1569 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Yeah was thinking I would pull the plugs tomorrow and check and clean and gap if need be. Going to buy a clear/see-through fuel filter and put it in the line, would there be any downside or any advantage of having two fuel filters in a row?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 24, 2015, 2:31 AM

Post #20 of 24 (1567 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Hmmm? Two good filter really should be fine in a row or not. Clear may be hard to find - check or they may be very foggy plastic now.
Another idea is a plain larger filter upstream from the primary even before the fuel pump but low in the line where it's safer to use rubber fuel hose and clamps.
Here's one here that fit about all 80s into 90s Ford larger vehicles would work and large.....
Vehicle Specific Duralast/Fuel FilterPrice: $8.99
  • Part Number: FF679DL

*********************************
Another looks really clear for a couple more bucks but smaller...........

Those pics and parts came from US based Autozone. If you don't have them there should be a similar outlet in AU in person or on line. US would ship but might cost too much?
There are also "glass bowl fuel filters" you can clean still available and even put a magnet in or on it!
Like this is this pic shows.........

Assortment of types you make to fit safely - Google out for those or ask with a picture.
Don't forget the sock in the fuel tank.
Been there with this stuff. It ends at some point or you get new gas tank mostly and not all are very expensive,


T



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 24, 2015, 2:50 AM

Post #21 of 24 (1561 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Will call into my local parts shop and see what they can offer me. Will try to find clear and as you say place upstream from the primary filter.
Could you go over the 'fuel sock' again, not %100 sure what you were meaning, thanks.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 24, 2015, 3:09 AM

Post #22 of 24 (1556 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

They are naming it a "Strainer" not a sock for look up. Here's one for a 1975 Toyota Truck with carby so would be in the tank at end of fuelgauge where fuel is picked up looking probably like this...........

Parts were still available here quickly for 10 years older than yours!


Tom



wdoyle2410
User

Nov 24, 2015, 3:24 AM

Post #23 of 24 (1552 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Ah okay, will read through my manuals and try to work out how to remove it to inspect it. Will keep you posted on how it goes


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Nov 24, 2015, 4:03 AM

Post #24 of 24 (1547 views)
Re: 1985 4Runner idles fine but stalls when I touch gas pedal Sign In

Should be pretty generic. Comes out with the fuel gauge and if that exact type pushes on or a small clamp of some sort. Shouldn't require too much to figure out. Not very expensive so would do it while there just anyway,
Tom







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