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fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Napster134
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Apr 11, 2009, 7:21 PM
Post #1 of 23
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fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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I got a 1992 firebird pontiac and i recently droped the gas tank and replaced the fuel pump. We were sure that the fuel pump was not activating because there was no gas flowing throught to the carbuerator or neither could you hear the fuel pump activate when the ignition was turned on. So after i replaced the pump the car still did not start, i was pretty upset after i had spent all day replacing the pump, now me and my dad began to check to see if there was any fuses for the fuel pump and after reading through our repair manual and using a hot wire to activate the fuel pump manualy through the fuel pump relay we narrowed the problem down to either being a blown in-line fuse ( no.2 20A ) which leads to the fuel pump or a problem with the oil pressure switch sender that also leads to the fuel pump. The problem we have now is that we know were niether of these are located in the car. And our Haynes manual does not have any information on neither other than a wiring diagram.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Apr 11, 2009, 8:29 PM
Post #2 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Napster; What model Firebird? And what engine? My software is showing this vehicle as injected. Besides the fuel pump fuse, there is also a relay.
Loren
SW Washington
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 11, 2009, 10:35 PM
Post #3 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Quick look shows 91% were 305 TBIs counter rotating looks like Chev block. Three oil switches are possible!? 1 wire, 3 and 4 wire?? These do have something to do with enabling relay if multi wire IMO.
As Loren suggested there is a relay. Dang things will test ok and not be also wiring plugs can be huge issues,
T
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Napster134
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Apr 12, 2009, 9:19 AM
Post #4 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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sorry for not mentioning the engine, its got a TBI 5.0 V8 350 and thanks for all your help, the car does have a fuel pump relay and its getting no juice at all, we tested each of the relays wires with a voltage tested and none had juice, the car started and we could hear the pump when we got a hot lead from the battery and gave the fuel pump juice. i posted a picture of a diagram if it could help
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scan0001.jpg
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Apr 12, 2009, 9:40 AM
Post #5 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Napster; Using your test light, with the key in the "on" position, check for voltage at both sides of fuses 1,2, and 20. If you don't have a legend for the fuse box, see attachment.
Loren
SW Washington
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Attachments:
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92 Firebird Fuse box.gif
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Napster134
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Apr 12, 2009, 9:46 AM
Post #6 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Thanks Loren, let me go try that now, ill report back in a few minutes : )
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Napster134
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Apr 12, 2009, 10:00 AM
Post #7 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Ok i just check and fuse 20 is not getting any juice on neither side of the fuse ... where does 20 lead to !?
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Apr 12, 2009, 10:49 AM
Post #8 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Looks like the pink wire supplies voltage to the fuse via ign. switch. I'll attach the diagram. Looks to be a fusable link in between the coil and fuse, too.
Loren
SW Washington
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Attachments:
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96 Cougar.gif
(0 B)
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Napster134
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Apr 12, 2009, 11:09 AM
Post #9 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Thanks, im sorry but the diagram you attached is not letting me view it, and me and my dad are checking it out rite now, ill report in a little.
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Napster134
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Apr 12, 2009, 11:31 AM
Post #10 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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were not getting any juice to the relay, do you have any idea where the red wire connects ?! when we add direct hot wire to the pink one the fuel pump activates and we are able to start the car
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Napster134
User
Apr 12, 2009, 11:35 AM
Post #11 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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also our manual doesnt tell us where the red wire leads to, all it says is it goes to "fuel pump prime conn."
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Apr 12, 2009, 5:16 PM
Post #12 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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I just resent it. Sorry. Didn't realize that it didn't come thru.
Loren
SW Washington
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Attachments:
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Graphic.gif
(128 KB)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 12, 2009, 9:42 PM
Post #13 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Direcr post of attach..........
T
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Napster134
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Apr 12, 2009, 9:49 PM
Post #14 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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would anyone happen to be able to get me a diagram that shows where all the fuel pump relays wiring leads to, theres no juice going into the fuel pumps relay and i want to trace all the relays wiring and make sure theres not a blown inline fuse or somthing is disconnected. Thanks again for everyones help
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Napster134
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Apr 12, 2009, 9:55 PM
Post #15 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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just wanted to add sumthing about an earlier post, and that is that fuse #20 works when you crank the engine ... i been workin all day on this car n no luck : (
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Apr 13, 2009, 12:36 PM
Post #16 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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I'm about as far from an electrician as one can be. But, if you have power to #20 in the crank mode, and from what I can decipher with the wiring diagram, it looks like the pump is wired through the oil pressure sending unit. So, during crank, it by-passes the sending unit, but once started, it must see oil pressure to complete the circuit?
Hopefully, someone with a whole lot more knowledge than me will jump in here. Could you, possibly, be fighting a faulty oil pressure switch? Or, actually, low oil pressure? Just a guess. The sending units are relatively inexpensive.
Loren
SW Washington
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 14, 2009, 5:48 AM
Post #17 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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That would be me with a 220 line - laugh!
TMK and DAND discussed this once with the oil switch. Vague recollection of pink wire is enabled for a grace period while cranking and perhaps a few seconds once RPMs are detected with an oil pressure reading. For the grief of this I'd be inclined to just toss the oil pressure switch if not expensive.
I think the idea is to shut down fuel pump on purpose if engine stalls OR like in an accident. It may send this message for a grace period thru the ECM such that you hear the "buzz" for a time period with just key on engine off and since it didn't start fuel pump isn't going to keep working but normally would try again and this one isn't. Not sure what would cancel fuel pump and where located like in the case of a collision when of course you don't want a fuel pump to continue thru broken lines spraying fuel around and that may be the stopper and sorry to say I don't know exactly where what is located for that but the oil switch is on the possible list to cause this IMO,
T
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Napster134
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Apr 14, 2009, 5:00 PM
Post #18 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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when the car is started and running our oil gauge inside the car reads 60 pounds of oil pressure, can it still be the switch !? and also me and my dad were thinking about when we had installed the new fuel pump and we could not remember if there was a ground wire for the pump. Maybe we forgot to connect it since we only remember connecting an adapter that had 2 electrical wires to the pump, do these fuel pumps have a ground wire also ?! Thanks for all your help.
Today we started the car with the fuel pump hooked up directly from the battery, and i drove it around the block, the engine seized and we had to drain all the gas from the cylinders by removing the plugs lol i hope this didnt cause any damage to the engine.
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Napster134
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Apr 14, 2009, 5:22 PM
Post #19 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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i was just looking at the wiring diagram for the fuse box that Loren and Tom posted and i saw that the fuel pump does have a ground, there are 3 wires going into the fuel tank, i connected 2 and im thinking what happened to the third lol ... im hopin this is it : D at the same time it sucks since im gonna have to bring down the tank again : / lol its better than dealing with all this electrical
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Napster134
User
Apr 14, 2009, 9:15 PM
Post #20 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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me and my dad just finshed putting the fuel tank back up and we didnt find any ground wires, yet we never actually checked inside the fuel tank because its really hard to take down and we really didnt think that there would be a ground inside the tank.
Where is the oil sending uinit in the car loacted anyway !? im going to head down to the store tommaro and buy a new oil sending unit. Hofully that wil be it.
I found out the the pink wire comming out of the fuel relay slits down into 3 smaller wires, 1: inside the car (drivers side, might be to the fuse box) 2: into the passergers side of the car heading into the ECM 3: also into the passengers side but not sure where
If anyone has anymore possiblilites of what might be the problem please let me know. Thanks everyone
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 15, 2009, 3:45 AM
Post #21 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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OIL PRESSURE SWITCH 1992 Pontiac Firebird 5.0L TBI OHV 8cyl The Oil Pressure Switch is located: Under vehicle, driver side, below engine area, front of oil filter, below exhaust manifold, mounted in block
~~~~~~~~~~
I didn't write that - just copied.
As said there could be three different ones! IDK?? 1-3 or 4 wire. This suggests because it's Firebird that you would have the four wire one and the wires are sold separately. I'll try to post the pic of what it may look like -
That's clearly a problem as the connectors don't seem too trusty to me!
I'll bet the trouble is wiring/connections more than the switch itself but I'm guessing,
T
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Napster134
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Apr 15, 2009, 1:16 PM
Post #22 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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well i just finished replacing the oil pressure switch and my oil pressure reads zero with the engine not runnning, i cant remember if the oil pressure use to stay at zero with the engine not running but im going to see if i can start the car once i put the spark plugs back in.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 15, 2009, 1:54 PM
Post #23 of 23
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Re: fuel pump in line fuse firebird ! : /
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Cross your fingers! Hey - you could hear the fuel pump prime now even without the plugs in! Could even get a pressure reading. I tend to think oil pressure gauge returns to ZERO when car is off. Gas gauges and others some don't till you touch the key to run - then they will read hopefully the proper of what's up.
You just know if your gauge had more than the one wire that it's involved with this even if this isn't the upfront trouble.
Hate to waste on parts but time is worth something too. When doing the toss and pray method start with the cheaper stuff!
Side note: Had an intermittent PDL problem on a GM for six months. Would work then not. I gave up as sometimes a new mind will think of things and every time it would work again for a day and quit. Would always lock doors but wouldn't open them but they'd struggle as if trying. Handicapped person so this was VERY important to fix. Sent it out to THREE highly qualified tech as it started to misbehave even in front of anyone now yet everything tested ok?! Now that's four of us with no hair so off it went to an automotive electrical specialty shop who replaced the receiver for remote and it worked for a few days??!! Quit again. In the course of replacing the remote receiving box the control rods for A/C duct selection broke off plastic clips unknown at the time till warm weather and panel vents just wouldn't work. While fixing that myself I tossed the PDL relay - in that one it had six prongs and was in the vicinity VERY tough to get at. Problem was solved for $19.99 and we had already spent close to $800 in professional help and parts! That was my Mother's car no less! Dumb stuff happens and you could continuity test that relay as good but it just didn't pass enough current (amps) thru it - go figure?
Good luck with this fix and keep us posted,
T
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