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Stuck at home, luckily/ starter problems


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greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 11:17 AM

Post #1 of 52 (642 views)
  post locked   Stuck at home, luckily/ starter problems  

  So I just come around when I have a problem. Nice to see you all. I am at wits end. 2002 Subaru, VDB. So last year my car is clicking upon starting, sometimes. I put in a rebuilt and it was doing it more and more.Like before, I guess starter drive, even on new unit. I replaced it, again, with same unit and this one has really been bad, lately. I have really cleaned all connections, on both ends. I have another new starter, here, but was checking some ideas and found the car is still clicking even with nothing connected to the main power to starter drive. I was using a jumper cable lead to bypass the whole hot line and check, praying that would get the thing to engage without bumping the key 1000 times, like yesterday, when it really went bad. What could give the clicking, with no hot lead?

(This post was edited by greasy one on May 23, 2022, 11:44 AM)


greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 11:26 AM

Post #2 of 52 (638 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

 My 3rd starter is a different one and am waiting to fight with it again. The second change went all day and was very bad getting their hidden lower nut off


or back on, actually.


(This post was edited by greasy one on May 23, 2022, 11:27 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 23, 2022, 12:32 PM

Post #3 of 52 (617 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

? Rapid fire clicking isn't from the starter drive rather solenoids with not enough amps, delivered amps.

Could be ground wire should go first to engine blocks or wild bad luck.

Starter drives are rarely redone on rebuilt if they work! Try adding ground with capable cables direct battery to harmless bracket on engine.

Most jumper cables you don't scream for mercy at the cost would only charge up a weakened battery over some time the 1 gauge, fine strand copper cost over $200 bucks would start an engine without a battery in the vehicle from a source capable.

The clamp ends of great ones should be shark bit type and hard to squeeze if not this problem isn't solved.

Again, AMPS delivered require both positive and ground to engine loss of either gives the same low amps to starters need 100% for just the short time.

I'm speaking the rapid fire sound if so. That protects your starter low amps will harm a good one fast if it didn't do that,

Tom



greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 1:01 PM

Post #4 of 52 (612 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

 I mean there is a click when I hit the key, it was 1 or 2, then start. Usually, it fires right up. Lately I have been hitting the key a bunch of times, before it starts. The jumper cables have been kept nicely for 45 years and are quality and long. Mom bought them for me when I was stuck. I think electrical is fine. I will look further into battery if I manage to get these 2 fasteners back in, and still a problem.New starter is hanging in place. I checked the old one and it didnt fire and then did. I kept jumping and watching the gear and then smoke poured out.


greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 1:24 PM

Post #5 of 52 (604 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

 I got the bolt and bottom nut started,, The nut was slow to start and I thought it was a repeat from the last time. I was twisting my arm and hand trying to put on the wrong nut, for hours. The nut hits the netherworld when removing.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 23, 2022, 1:45 PM

Post #6 of 52 (599 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

I know things are tight on everything. ONE OR TWO CLICKS THEN IT STARTS?

Did others do just that too? It's still more likely AMPS don't get to starter also must return back to battery.

A test with few funky tools a strong clue. Try running 4 way flashers when this pulls this. If that quit blinking or change speed - a clue starter ate all it could nothing left for the moment.


Why? I can be heat from the strong AMP pull the starter wants makes a connection better is fooling with you?

This can be seen with a DVOM or just volts at battery when it does that will fall below say 9V for just a moment.

Other is a question? What stays on no matter what when you ask for starter? Many interior overhead lights would stay on headlights a better test but Subaru may shut those off right then, IDK.

See the dome light go dim or if playing with flashed improper to work as they are intended for those times.

Many cig lighters/power ports don't work until engine is running I use that for a road call test on ones that stay on.

Quality control for parts is horrible but this bad habit is pushing the odds starter wasn't the problem in the first place.

Most outlets will load test a returned starter I know you could save bucks all on line.

If starter out of the car draws too much it's faulty yet again.

Room for me to be wrong it's tough to describe what sounds are so typical (to me) I just know about 40 years ago or more.

A weak battery fool this also is why I spent a King's ransom for jumper cables so good you wouldn't need a battery in this at all would fire right up or at least crank normally.

Have I confused you enough yet? Sorry - I did some dang many road calls you get used to what to do while owner is there and fix it on location if possible spare wire ends, battery ends and eyelets to engine block and starter's solenoid most on top of the starters now. That's doing two tricks at once, making the final connection AND throwing the gear of starter drives out to ring gear or flywheels - same thing one for standard shift cars,

Tom

Tom



greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 2:50 PM

Post #7 of 52 (590 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

verdict battery. Exactly 3 yrs old from Walmart. Exactly like every other battery I have bought from them. I got the same clicks and then tested and did get 12 volts+ Tried jumping with another WM battery that I had recently charged. It seems bad too. I broke out my Sears charger, also 40 yrs old, from the Folks. Put on 60A. jumping and it fired right up. I will let it charge and check volts, running. I made leads that plug in for voltmeter. Thanks for the help and sorry about wasting your time. I blew this one.I am also very grateful that the changeover, today went well. My second car seems to be history, with a rotted and blown brakeline.


greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 3:22 PM

Post #8 of 52 (585 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

  Not quite sure on battery. My charger says its fully charged. The car still wont start unless hooked to charger. Even a small 10 A current will do it. Maybe some bad connection somewhere. I do have 14.5 V running


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 23, 2022, 3:26 PM

Post #9 of 52 (583 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

YOU ARE NOT WASTING MY TIME! Here to help in that massive missive said a battery could do this and fool you.

AYOR getting batteries there despite good price the folks that stock items may or likely don't know how to handle them!

# 1 problem they get dropped easiest way to wreck a new battery may not show up right away.

IDK, I like NAPA cost or not here the staff are all expert parts folks - it helps,

Tom



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 23, 2022, 3:32 PM

Post #10 of 52 (578 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  


Quote
Not quite sure on battery. My charger says its fully charged


That doesn't mean a thing. A bad battery can show fully charged and still have nothing. It can also have a short that only shows up sometimes.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 3:56 PM

Post #11 of 52 (572 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

  You guys are the best. I have habits on other forums (not car) that get answers that are not relevant to what was just written and rewritten. Anyways, my battery drops below 12v. but not below 11.4 even cranking with lights etc. It wont fire without the jumper and at 60a. but then, with no problem. I guess the battery amps are low and/or some bad connection that doesn't hold with the extra power blasting thru.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 23, 2022, 4:00 PM

Post #12 of 52 (570 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

If your battery voltage is not dropping below 11.4v when you have the starter engaged but the engine still isn't cranking, that's not a battery issue. That's a connection or starter issue.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 5:31 PM

Post #13 of 52 (557 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

 Well I think after 3 starters that got to be ruled out.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 23, 2022, 5:34 PM

Post #14 of 52 (553 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

Have you tried jumping out the starter solenoid directly?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



greasy one
User

May 23, 2022, 9:29 PM

Post #15 of 52 (539 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

  Jump the, thin, plug-in wire to the heavy hot wire, both on solenoid ?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 24, 2022, 3:17 AM

Post #16 of 52 (534 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

Yes



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



greasy one
User

May 24, 2022, 6:05 AM

Post #17 of 52 (522 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

  I thought I also replied that I only did this before putting the starter in to test it. I am gonna check a ground to body bolt and do this check.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 24, 2022, 6:08 AM

Post #18 of 52 (520 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  


Quote
I thought I also replied that I only did this before putting the starter in to test it


The bench test is not sufficient. It doesn't prove it has the capacity to crank the engine over.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 24, 2022, 6:33 AM

Post #19 of 52 (517 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

Greasy: Grounds. Look what it is now should go to engine block first directly from battery. From there or a 2nd one needs battery to body metal. Look at firewalls some would use a braided strap. Those are all thru vehicles as needed are mandatory or things quit working properly.

Think - doors open U don't want to count on a hinge so wire goes along.

Point is both matter or item wouldn't work or work properly.

Bench testing starters - new, used or whatever. I'll do that see it operate, throws out the drive gear - watch out if not in a vice it will jump around. As Hammer said that doesn't prove it has power to turn an engine but if it didn't run it there's something wrong - no vehicle involved yet.

The rebuilders should be doing this so all were tested but I know they don't. Most just get brushes and a quick clean up on brass contacts then a nice pretty paint job or was cleaned anyway to look nice.

1 more: look at you battery or another if out and around. It's supposed to be marked with either or both CCA and may say max CA mean ''Cold cranking Amps" and total amps @ perhaps room temps.

Cold means 32F what to expect.

Trying to help folks just don't understand this is still marked right on them. So is the date they were made if over 3-4 months look for another IMO it's losing ability when made never that good ever again,

T



greasy one
User

May 24, 2022, 6:49 AM

Post #20 of 52 (511 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

  The battery seems like it may have the voltage but not the amps. The thing has kinda low #s. 550/ 650 maybe. The car starts right up with the charger so now I know I can travel. The car quickly went from a bump or 3 of the ignition to nothing but click. click.. forever. From my, old school, mechanic years, it acted like bad starters. I never saw a bad, new starter thou.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 24, 2022, 7:21 AM

Post #21 of 52 (505 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

That should be enough for Subaru. If just the few amps of a charger is making all the difference the battery is just weak.

This should use U-bolts, do note your adding anything is to the wires those now cheapo clamps need 100%, no less from the battery. Hard to explain you could see that drop off with DVOM that they fail to read the same lead post to the u-bolt same. If not those need help or replacing now just ends are in vogue can get better ones than OE.

Some will seriously squish a cut off wire types that you strip cable or will cut thru that insulation.

This crap was ~ 90% of road calls - lack of attention over years or if u-bolt touches itself tightening isn't doing a thing.

Ask if you can get spacers to fatten posts if so I have a stock of those still lead was best no longer sold they'd be zinc now. IDK if you want to cut a corner it is kinda but could work with zinc if you lubed them with proper lube also sold prevent the oxidation of zinc,

T

T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 24, 2022, 7:22 AM

Post #22 of 52 (505 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

Amps and volts have a direct relationship. If you use up the amps, the voltage will drop dramatically.

If you still have over 11v while the starter is engaged, you are not using all the battery capacity.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



greasy one
User

May 24, 2022, 7:38 AM

Post #23 of 52 (501 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

   Time to recheck those volts and get busy. Tom the clamps are not the usual but are working. They use brass connectors on the cables and a bolt with thumbscrews. I wanted constant 12v and I made it . These 6 wires could be the problem (Prolly) although I looked at a couple yesterday going to starter


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 24, 2022, 7:51 AM

Post #24 of 52 (497 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

? What did you mean 6 wires? The gauge will matter there they don't move much. Fine strands are more tolerant of bending and or vibrations so for jumper cables the fine lasts and can put them away.

Super quality is costly but if no sales out of biz.

Check for voltage drop while starter is cranking, no drop that close or something wrong there.

Higher quality crap for marine use check your wallet out but shouldn't be necessary,

T



greasy one
User

May 24, 2022, 8:31 AM

Post #25 of 52 (491 views)
  post locked   Re: Stuck at home, luckily  

 I am trending to battery dying in last couple weeks. It does drop into the 10Vs with lights and heater on, while turning key, but not engaging at all. Started nicely with added 10 Amps on charger. The charger was not reading full after short testing. I didnt jump the 2 hot wires yet. but pulled the small wire off and jumped to the larger, with key on. Showing my rustyness. I did clean several grounds. I think I got to put in a new battery, even if its just a test.






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