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1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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IrJoWo
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Jan 11, 2015, 1:32 PM
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1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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Hi,
I have a 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix LE 3.1 Liter. It has about 73,000 miles on it (grandmother's old car.)
The thing has had all sorts of electrical problems over the years. I've been driving it for about 6 years.
Right now it won't start after I accidentally left keys in the ignition overnight (I know, stupid.) The battery was dead so I tried jumping, but even with a connection, all I get is clicking from the starter, no life from the engine.
I wasn't really surprised. In the last three years I've paid to replace the starter, spark plug wire, ignition module, an ignition coil, and battery. Before that I paid to replace the alternator.
My mom owns the car. It's pretty clear between me and my parents that we've wasted a lot of money on this car. I'm trying to figure out the best way to get some of that money back.
Me and my mom have foolishly spent money to replace a lot of parts-- tires, brakes also. I had the thought maybe I could get more in parts than trying to sell the car whole. Right now, since it doesn't start, I imagine it would sell for very little as a used car.
I'm curious if anyone has thoughts about how to proceed with this? Is there any hope someone would be able to get to the bottom of all the electrical problems? None of the repairs seem to solve the root cause of the problem. The other systems in the car seem like they function OK.
Anyway, it's been a very frustrating process. I used to bicycle everywhere and only started relying on a car in my mid-twenties. I didn't realize how evil the whole world of automobiles is.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 11, 2015, 1:43 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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Electrical problems????????
Just sounds to me like you killed the battery. Once it was dead and left out in the cold, it probably froze and now it's ruined. Have the battery tested because that's likely all it needs.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 11, 2015, 1:46 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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Nothing you mentioned done for this car over some time is that unusual to me.
Right now you just don't have enough power to crank with the starter and jumping isn't working so a better jump (many cables really suk) or take battery out and have it charged and tested. If let to go dead it really harms them and aren't meant to go dead just start the car and the alternator runs the rest after charging back what it took to start it.
If this is giving you the rapid clicking battery power (amps) isn't enough to crank it. If one click and then nothing it's a very weak connection usually.
This is routine and if you don't pay attention to battery, connections if this car was 6 years from new you'd be having issues by now,
T
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IrJoWo
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Jan 11, 2015, 1:48 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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But it won't jump start. I had a connection for sure, and still wouldn't start.
I'm sure the battery is dead. But shouldn't a jump start work unless there's something else wrong with the ignition system?
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Hammer Time
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Jan 11, 2015, 1:50 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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Not necessarily. Have the battery charged and tested.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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IrJoWo
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Jan 11, 2015, 1:56 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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OK, well I got the rapid clicking. I'm not sure I understand how jump-starting works. Isn't the Grand Prix using the battery power from the good car to start? I mean the battery from the good car is strong enough to start the good car. The cables are practically brand new, nice and thick cables.
In any case, I suppose it's worth taking the battery out and getting it tested. Not too expensive or time consuming. I did it last winter when the battery died.
Thanks
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 11, 2015, 2:16 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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No, the other battery is pulling the power down.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 11, 2015, 6:33 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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Quote from top post ">>
Right now it won't start after I accidentally left keys in the ignition overnight (I know, stupid.) The battery was dead so I tried jumping, but even with a connection, all I get is clicking from the starter, no life from the engine.<<"
That alone doesn't kill or drain a battery down but if in the "on" position would. You said it was dead and jumped it and still not enough. No surprise even when done properly you need to wait for battery to charge back up if it ever will again or like Hammer Time said you are just feeding the dead battery with donor vehicle.
Now you've said same thing last year. Same battery too no doubt - right? You can't play with draining a liquid filled automotive battery like that many times before they will self destruct. It's nothing like the batteries of devices like smart phones etc it's wet acid and when drawn down if it was new you can destroy one and now with any age doing it over and over it's probably no good but you need to charge and test it to know.
Most batteries new still on a shelf waiting to be sold if a year old get recycled as they don't like not being at full charge.
GM side post battery idea you are only adding power to the battery thru that post which in turn goes on to the cable. Some and might be this car the battery is too tight to get at so use a remote spot to jump from near it with a cover over it.
In order to overpower a dead battery with jumping you need the most powerful jumper cables or box you can find and you wouldn't pay for the cost of decent anything in fact most isn't sold as it would scare you how much the good stuff costs. $100s for cables a few hundred for a great jumper box.
This time of year all the weak stuff shows up in full color. Does every year with the first cold and has been everywhere for some time let alone letting a battery go dead now you have to have it up to par or this happens.
This actually could be a real nice low mile old car still but needs common care like any. Do yourself a favor if you read this in time, spray some PB or something on the battery hold down bolt even from the underside on this I think you can hit some of the threads. At least WD-40 but PB is much better. Breaking off that bolt down low on these just to take the battery out or replace is a real pest if it breaks off.
Expect to need a new battery. Charge new one first too as they are NOT fully charged when new or ask the place to charge it for you first and if they think it's fine as it is because it's new or rather just unsold yet they don't have a clue and don't expect parts outlets to be techs either, most aren't,
T
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IrJoWo
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Jan 12, 2015, 1:42 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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All right well thanks again for the detailed reply.
I guess what you guys are saying is that the dead battery draws some of the power from the good battery, which means not all the good battery's power is available to start the car. That makes sense to me.
Tom G-- Well the nice thing is that this car has a remote positive terminal with easy access for the cable clip. And the negative I put on some metal near the engine block. I messed up at first and put it on painted metal. But I saw sparks on the second spot, and then the dash lit up on the dead Pontiac so I knew I had a connection.
Unfortunately I screwed up in trying to remove the battery and stripped up the bolt that secures the cable coming from the car to the negative battery terminal. As you said it is hard to access in this car.
So you were right about the WD-40 but it's probably too late for that. Live and learn I guess.
I think that if I have to I can cut through the insulation on the end of the cable which is holding the bolt in place, then I can get the battery out with the bolt still in it. But hopefully from there getting the bolt out won't be too much trouble. I'm hoping replacing the end of the cable is relatively easy.
Yes this is the same battery that died last winter. The guy I bought battery from is actually a nice guy. He charged it for free last winter when it died. I think he tried to explain to me about keeping the battery charged. My understanding is that the alternator adds charge while I'm driving. I don't drive super a lot so perhaps this is part of why I've had it die last winter?
In this case, I know I left the key in and I'm guessing I must've left the key turned on which is probably what killed it.
(This post was edited by IrJoWo on Jan 12, 2015, 1:48 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 12, 2015, 1:58 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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High bet new battery is the fix and the problem was as I thought the place it's located which is why the remote thing for jumping or testing. Other GMs of same body did that too and was a pest.
No joke on breaking the hold-down for the battery. I forget if you have to remove a washer tank or what to get near it but you can and take time not to break it and if you did fix it up to what it takes even drilling it out or sending it out and pay attention to grease things like that - they almost all break if not tons newer than this.
Again - try not to break stuff just swapping it out. Plastic crap or whatever some has to be real brittle just from engine heat long ago now. Doable just take your time toss cables by length now as needed,
T
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IrJoWo
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Jan 12, 2015, 2:22 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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Yeah, it's a pest for sure.
I'll try to do the WD-40. It looks like a big bulky air filter is in the way in this particular car.
Yeah, I was in a hurry the first time. I'm going to take my time now.
Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 12, 2015, 2:31 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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PB is better for a penetrating solvent - ask PB is short for Power Blaster but give any some time. Look for any metal fasteners that go thru into wheel well or under and hit it there too.
If this car isn't a real rust bucket it's a gold mine IMO as a great second or first car for some. Just look at the price of the cheapest anything new and you won't be so intimidated at some routine work on this,
T
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IrJoWo
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Jan 26, 2015, 5:16 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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Well, I got the battery out eventually, just took it out with cable still attached. The guy at budget batteries recharged it for me, gave me a new nut and now the car starts again.
So yes, clearly I overreacted and it was just a dead battery.
However, I still wonder if there is some deeper problem in the car.
I've noticed for a while that the car seems a bit sluggish to respond to the accelerator. It seems like I have to push it in a little ways before the engine reacts. I don't think it's always been like that; I think it's gotten worse anyway, I'm not sure.
It used to have a rough running problem before I replaced the ignition module, third cylinder coil, spark plug wire. I thought this might be related to that problem?
The battery guy told me to leave the battery unplugged while I'm not driving as a way to keep the battery going longer since I don't drive a whole lot. I guess I should do that, but as we discussed it's kind of a pain to monkey with the battery connections on this car.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 26, 2015, 5:37 PM
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Re: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix -- chronic electrical problems; worth fixing?
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I wouldn't "unplug" as you said the battery on this but rather use an automatic battery changer/maintainer. Needs 110 power available in a dry location or a cord at least to inside car and back maintain/charge thru a cig lighter/power port.
Even many '93s will lose needed memory for engine controls particularly idle speed. Never mind the pita of always resetting clocks, radio or other things it may have.
If you must they do make quick disconnect cables to make it fast and easy but would be a last resort. Would rather you got a maintainer or drove it on purpose regularly till fully warmed up,
T
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