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Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity?


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daveward
Novice

Sep 17, 2016, 9:49 AM

Post #1 of 33 (2129 views)
Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

I have a 1964 Porsche 356C with a no start/ no spark problem. The mechanics are just like a vintage VW as it is 6v, points, etc. The issue is that the new spark plug wires themselves have continuity (my tester registers continuity from one end of the wire to the other....but the same can't be said for the connectors themselves. There is no continuity. The "connector" I am referring to in this case is the VW-like plastic/carbonate fitting that goes on the end of a spark plug wire and connects the wire to the spark plug itself. Of course, inside the p[lactic connector housing are some brass components that appear to be connected from one end of the connector to the other....but maybe not.

Anyway...the points will create a spark when they open just before TDC but the plug will not...and that is reason for a no start. I have eight older spare connectors that all read the same way (no continutity but resistance is measurable at almost 1,000 ohms) and I have a brand new set of VW wires that when you remove the connector they also show no continuity.

Can anyone check a spare connector laying around for continuity or help me explain what I am missing? Thanks! Dave


Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 17, 2016, 10:36 AM

Post #2 of 33 (2124 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Limited info for any specifics as this car wouldn't have been sold to the US where site is based. 6V road vehicles ended by 1957 totally for export to the US just BTW.


You should get an ohm reading on what actually touches the tip of the spark plug.


6V is the ballasted voltage for points on later 12V systems so no problem there as the newer 12V started with full 12V then ran on lesser for the coil by a resistor. If in the mix a resistor has been added to only available 6V it just might be half that for cranking? Not sure as never made the mistake if one was changed ever to 12V - you do need to know.


Wires may or may not be right for this? I can't know if "resistance" to check continuity is intended or not or compatible with this ignition system.
At some point it became mandatory to not let out a radio frequency such that a solid core plug wire wouldn't be used and TMK doesn't spark a plug properly or can jump out to nearest ground not jump the plug gap.


Oh my? I may actually have some very old new spare wires and need to go check what the resistance is of the wire itself vs a resistor wire totally.


I think that's where your problem is - wrong wires for the exact application.


For now will check what I might have and if it's still there! Friend - that was a looooong time ago but do own a 6V, POS Ground Tractor engine that still runs and makes me double think everything.


See what I can find out and be back when I can,


Tom



Hammer Time
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Sep 17, 2016, 11:03 AM

Post #3 of 33 (2120 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In


Quote
Can anyone check a spare connector laying around for continuity or help me explain what I am missing?


Oh yeah, we should have a bunch spark plug connectors laying around for a 1964 Porsche.



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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 17, 2016, 11:03 AM

Post #4 of 33 (2119 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Just checked what I'm near sure was a new wire for resistance and showed "infinity" which is 100% of what it gets it delivers.


Another marked "resistance wire" IDK what for showed down to 15 ohms and being high voltage passing thru would make it want to spark more just at the plug. That wire was marked for year 1993 would only be higher voltage for electronic ignition. No real others on hand to test in person by me.


Info for specific car should be out there for all this and not sure right now where I would search or what words in a search to find it quickly if at all?


So - I think you have the wrong wires for this but not all lost maybe. Not a clue where you'd find the stuff but you used to buy spark plug wire by the roll and have an assortment of ends to put on much like you do for coax cable if you have that for household, strip back and put proper end and a new correct rubber boot at each end.


Other is you have the VW factor - any of the four cooperating companies of the day just sometimes did things differently than almost anything else and that I wouldn't know what to look for.


Clearly if you don't have spark to plug thru the wires you have they are not right for the set up you have. Best I can do with very dusty new old stock!


Tom
(edit in as Hammer Time commented) I did buy out a parts store that carried all that so have what's left of the assortment. Not many would and I shouldn't as I never use the stuff..........


(2nd edit) I do recall taking old ends off of wires for new wires that were not 100% correct so where are you old wires?......



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Sep 17, 2016, 11:07 AM)


Hammer Time
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Sep 17, 2016, 11:06 AM

Post #5 of 33 (2116 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

The resistance for a wire should be no more than 10,000 ohms per foot.



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daveward
Novice

Sep 17, 2016, 1:43 PM

Post #6 of 33 (2110 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In


In Reply To

Quote
Can anyone check a spare connector laying around for continuity or help me explain what I am missing?


Oh yeah, we should have a bunch spark plug connectors laying around for a 1964 Porsche.


Hammer Time...perhaps my request was unclear. I did not expect anyone to have a Porsche spark plug connector handy...it was just a request to check any spare connector to see if it conducted electricity from end to end. That's all. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Dave


Hammer Time
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Sep 17, 2016, 1:45 PM

Post #7 of 33 (2109 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Modern cars don't use those.





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(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 17, 2016, 1:50 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 17, 2016, 2:46 PM

Post #8 of 33 (2104 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Do keep in mind Dave everything is adjusted for the very high voltage which would pass thru all but distilled water so how much gets thru isn't identical to just hard wire power at one end and same at the other.
That's vehicle and ignition specific and even this long ago this vehicle want original specific parts. They are out there somewhere or made up new somewhere. That I can't help you with.


I can say learn points if you keep it points and probably should. Lots of those you aligned before installation and if same vehicle for a lifetime keep condensers that show no metal transfer point to point @ the point as those match the vehicle well - a new one should work and cheap enough but may not be as accurate.


Try video on setting point for a couple sources and see which is credible to you,


Tom



daveward
Novice

Sep 17, 2016, 4:40 PM

Post #9 of 33 (2095 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In


In Reply To
Modern cars don't use those.



Hammer...I don't mean to be such a bother to you. I am merely hoping to get clarification on an electrical matter. Your being an ASE suggests you know the answer to my question, you just seem to be avoiding it for some reason. No one said the car in question is modern, by the way.

Would it be too much to ask you to answer this question with a simple yes or no...:
Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity?

Thanks


Hammer Time
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Sep 17, 2016, 4:43 PM

Post #10 of 33 (2093 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Yes, there is a conductor within it, usually with a resister in series. The outside shell is an insulator.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



daveward
Novice

Sep 17, 2016, 4:50 PM

Post #11 of 33 (2092 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In


In Reply To
Just checked what I'm near sure was a new wire for resistance and showed "infinity" which is 100% of what it gets it delivers.


Tom, Thanks for all the commentary.

1. Please be aware that all the Porsches sold in the 1950-65 timeframe entered the US market as 6v cars. This is a fairly original car.

2. When you say you tested for resistance and got "infinity" are you saying they same thing as I mean....that you have "continuity" from one end of the wire to the other, including the "connector" I am referring to?

Thanks again



Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 18, 2016, 1:16 AM

Post #12 of 33 (2076 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Dave - many cars did get into the US as any rules were difficult, fewer specs - almost no safety or emission requirements. Exchange rates you could buy there, ship back here so exceptions are all over the place for pricier vehicles or ones not ever available for dealer sales right up into the 1970s ending about 1974.


Not the point: You need to know that spark is high voltage to make a spark so wire and all components are insulating it not to escape but rather make the jump and spark at the plug not elsewhere.


Wires alone are nothing like a plain wire to a light bulb - extension cord or other purpose so try to understand that.


On top it's a Porsche and VERY old now. Fussy cars all the time then and that much harder now. LOTS HARDER!
You are correct - many parts will be shared with the much more popular for sales volume VW - Bug/Beetle for example. Some engine and assorted mechanical parts.


That's what you need to find is a source for parts that would be routine to use the car.


You'll do better with this car if you seriously want to be able to use it at all to join a club for them - parts either new old stock (NOS) or proper new.


Keep in mind so much as a light bulb for this thing is going to be a search. US would be a VERY weak market for much "foreign" anything for the vintage and made probably 90% of all the world's cars - this would be difficult new and then to keep up with and use more of an "eclectic" buyer rather than useful.


What do you want to do? Fix this to use it now and then or just get it going to sell it?


That will matter totally for you for suggestions which right now stand at getting into a club that would collect and deal with these, info, parts - all of it.


6V - just makes it harder beyond just ignition - anything run by electric power for this car now,


Tom



daveward
Novice

Sep 18, 2016, 8:53 AM

Post #13 of 33 (2069 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Hammer, thank you for your answer. Now I have to figure out why neither my spares nor a new set of plug wires don't conduct electricity. Thanks for your assistance.


daveward
Novice

Sep 18, 2016, 8:54 AM

Post #14 of 33 (2067 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Tom, I was hoping you could clarify a comment you made:

When you say you tested for resistance and got "infinity" are you saying they same thing as I mean....that you have "continuity" from one end of the wire to the other, including the "connector" I am referring to?

Thanks.


Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 18, 2016, 9:02 AM

Post #15 of 33 (2065 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Yes - the tester I used was cheap and a portable. Infinity is a total connection like solid wire, exactly what is at one end shows at the other end.


When reduced it take more Pushing power as in volts to get thru - on purpose by design,


Tom



Hammer Time
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Sep 18, 2016, 9:20 AM

Post #16 of 33 (2062 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

No, I'll have to disagree with that.
Infinity, as far as resistance is concerned means an open circuit which I doubt is the case in this situation. I would suspect it was the range setting on the meter that caused that reading.

A full connection without resistance would read 10 ohms or less.



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(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 18, 2016, 9:21 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 18, 2016, 9:50 AM

Post #17 of 33 (2059 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

The meter used is analog - shows same full reading as touching the probes to each other or means to me full connection as far as it's capable not a fraction thereof,


T


Hammer Time
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Sep 18, 2016, 9:52 AM

Post #18 of 33 (2057 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Something is wrong with that meter then. It should go to zero when you touch them together if you are actually measuring resistance..



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 18, 2016, 11:43 AM

Post #19 of 33 (2052 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Needle to the right is "0" resistance on that is what it read - ZERO. My fault for the confusion just used the term "infinity" (symbol a sideways 8) which is just a nick name I've used for zero resistance and won't anymore.


Tom



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Sep 18, 2016, 11:43 AM)


Hammer Time
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Sep 18, 2016, 11:45 AM

Post #20 of 33 (2049 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

In resistance, infinity means just the opposite of zero.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 18, 2016, 11:57 AM

Post #21 of 33 (2043 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Correct - move on as I spelled out 100% in and out shows "no" or ZERO resistance. My fault - won't use that term - Tom


chas
User

Sep 18, 2016, 4:26 PM

Post #22 of 33 (2036 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

did you check the inside of the distributor cap?

look at the center spring load that rides the rotor. they wear out.


daveward
Novice

Sep 19, 2016, 9:30 AM

Post #23 of 33 (2022 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In


In Reply To
did you check the inside of the distributor cap?

look at the center spring load that rides the rotor. they wear out.


Chas, thanks for the idea...I will check the cap more closely. But I am truly hung up on what I see as an illogical connector problem. I can, and may, replace the cap and the rotor and the points ( and I already have a replacement coil that changed nothing) but changing all those components may leave me with the same outcome...electricity isn't moving from one end of my spark plug connectors to the other.

Even buying that new set of spark plug wires with new connectors changed nothing...the new connectors had no continuity either.

Just to be clear...when I say continuity I mean that the tester's test endpoints provide for an audible buzz when connected together. When put into the ends of the spark plug connectors, there is no sound, thus no continuity in my terminology.

Yet...when the same tester ends attempt to measure ohms (resistance) through the connectors...they do...about 1K ohms which is marked on the connector.

So...that's another logic problem for my little brain...how can there be resistance without continuity?

In the meantime the no spark has slowed my project to a standstill.

Thanks for all the support thusfar...Dave


Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 19, 2016, 12:19 PM

Post #24 of 33 (2020 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

Dave - you keep saying "continuity" as checked by a device that makes noise - fine. Not for this though. "Resistance" might show no "continuity" on spark plug wires better leave that tool for testing fuses and other things.


Think of this "resistance" like a garden hose running and you step on it causing resistance OR if the pressure which is like voltage electrically is too low it would stop the flow.


Spark voltages are from about 30,000 volts to way up there for newer engines well over 40,000 volts even higher perhaps. That voltage can make a jump of a gap up to maybe over 1/2 inch.


I can't look up specs for this but if all is proper it was intended to have a certain amount of resistance quite possible so do quit just testing for plain continuity.


Why you are having troubles if replacing some of these parts is still unknown if they are good or proper for this car.


Points alone I said earlier need proper contact on any. Almost all come fine some you are expected to adjust so it delivers the correct amount of power thru them - don't worry why but without using automotive terms when touching the connection for a micro second is supposed to be good. You can see then on old ones if they were right and still worked fine but if new now make sure - testing for that is also measured as ohms.


Trying not to confuse this as the words used are also used in other description in just English not specific to specifications for an ignition system.


Where are you now? Not running because you think no spark? If you've been trying multiple times at some point you flood the engine and confuse you why it isn't running as flooded = soaked with fuel way too much wont spark and fire well or at all,


T



Hammer Time
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Sep 19, 2016, 12:46 PM

Post #25 of 33 (2017 views)
Re: Wouldn't You Agree, A Spark Plug Connector Should Conduct Electricity? Sign In

I really don't understand why you are fixated on this issue. Simply get a spark tester and see if you have spark. If you have spark, end of discussion. If not, then look further. Do the same thing at the coil wire and move down the line until you find out where you lost it.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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