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Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem


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s0up
Novice

Jul 3, 2016, 9:25 AM

Post #1 of 12 (5050 views)
Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

Hi everyone,

I've been struggling with a problem on my roommate's newly purchased 2006 Suzuki Swift for a few days now. I have electrical engineering experience but am having trouble understanding what is going on with this car as the repair manual schematics don't seem to match the car and I have no reference car to see how the system should normally work. The problem is the horn button is not triggering the horn but the horn itself, which is near the rad on the front of the car, works if I put a voltage across it. The car was recently purchased and we need to fix the horn to pass safety. I'm not sure if I'm having a combination of two problems or just one.

First of all there is a HORN/REAR FOG fuse in the dash fuse/junction box as well as a HORN fuse in the engine junction box. There is power (+12v) going from the horn fuse in the dash to a connector in the steering enclosure (in the same enclosure as the ignition, turn signals and headlight controls) via an orange wire. On the same connector there are two green wires tied together. The other side of the connector has 1 red and 1 black. Through the connector, the orange goes to red and the two green go to black. The red and black wires seem like they go through the steering column to the two horn buttons on the steering wheel. However, the red side of the button has no voltage and no connectivity to the red on the connector in the steering enclosure. The black is connected to ground. Thinking the horn button was a straight through switch that simply connects red to black when pushed (and testing this theory by with the ohm meter and getting 0 ohms when pushed), I shorted red to black on the connector in the steering enclosure and it blew the HORN/REAR FOG fuse in the dash junction box. This makes me wonder if there was already a short somewhere and someone messed around and burnt the red wire that goes through the steering column/wheel.

Furthermore, when testing the wires on the physical horn near the rad (1 black and 1 red), there is a constant +12v on the red wire, whether the button is pushed or not, and the black wire doesn't seem to have a connection to ground. My first question is, is this normal? Would the horn relay be on the black side of the horn? That is the only way I can make sense of these readings.

My second question is where is the horn relay on this car? It is not listed on the engine junction box and the dash junction box lists none of the relays and as I said, the service manual I got from Suzuki's web site is not making sense. None of the connectors, wire colours, or even fuse locations seem to line up with what I am seeing in the car. For example, the manual says the horn and hazards are on the same fuse whereas the sticker on the fuse box in the car lists HORN/REAR FOG.

If someone could give me a diagram or even verbally describe the circuit it would also be much appreciated.
I would think it would go dash junction/fuse, to button, to horn relay (trigger side), to ground. Then separate circuit from engine junction, to horn relay, to horn to ground.
But I don't know if stuff is all shorted and broken or if the horn circuit actually goes engine junction, to horn, to horn relay, to ground.

I'll put some pictures up as reference to what I'm talking about.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 3, 2016, 9:31 AM

Post #2 of 12 (5042 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

I don't see them making a Swift for US in 2006. I see you're in Canada but that shouldn't change anything.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



s0up
Novice

Jul 3, 2016, 9:46 AM

Post #3 of 12 (5039 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

http://autoforums.carjunky.com/photos/pic/271vM5Lz/1041.jpg
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/photos/pic/271vM5Lz/1043.jpg
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/photos/pic/271vM5Lz/1044.jpg
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/photos/pic/271vM5Lz/1045.jpg


s0up
Novice

Jul 3, 2016, 9:47 AM

Post #4 of 12 (5036 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

Interesting.. let me double check with the the owner


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

Jul 3, 2016, 9:51 AM

Post #5 of 12 (5030 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

Do you think this could be a "96?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Jul 3, 2016, 10:12 AM

Post #6 of 12 (5024 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

It is probably going to look like this set up. More than likely the short occurs when the relay energizes when the relay coil is grounded by the horn switches. Since the fuse protects the circuit for both the load and coil parts of the relay. The short is on the load side of the circuit between the relay and the horn itself. Take a 12 volt test light and connect it to battery positive. Remove the power wire from the horn. Then touch the probe on the power wire. If the test light illuminates, that circuit is shorted somewhere.







Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jul 3, 2016, 10:16 AM)


s0up
Novice

Jul 3, 2016, 10:17 AM

Post #7 of 12 (5019 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In


In Reply To
Do you think this could be a "96?


No, it's nowhere near that old. Maybe 2008? I'll get her to send me a pic of the car itself from the outside if that helps.


(This post was edited by s0up on Jul 3, 2016, 10:19 AM)


s0up
Novice

Jul 3, 2016, 10:25 AM

Post #8 of 12 (5007 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In


In Reply To
It is probably going to look like this set up. More than likely the short occurs when the relay energizes when the relay coil is grounded by the horn switches. Since the fuse protects the circuit for both the load and coil parts of the relay. The short is on the load side of the circuit between the relay and the horn itself. Take a 12 volt test light and connect it to battery positive. Remove the power wire from the horn. Then touch the probe on the power wire. If the test light illuminates, that circuit is shorted somewhere.



Ok, this is the circuit diagram I had in my head. When I test the power wire on the horn against battery ground I am getting +12v, which I felt was wrong or indicated a short. I did suspect the relay being the culprit but because all of the wires are bundled and the colours change, and the horn button isn't doing anything, I'm having troubled locating the horn relay. In my original post (and attached pics) I noted there are two horn fuses. One in the dash and one in the engine.

Do you have a good way to locate the horn relay? I pulled all the relays in the dash and they seem to be functioning properly, although there is a weird one in there that I'm not sure how to test (the purple one in the picture).


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Jul 3, 2016, 10:36 AM

Post #9 of 12 (5001 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

Relays usually don't short internally. Unplugging the relay and performing your short test would tell you if the problem is the relay or the wiring. I suspect wiring myself. Not sure where the relay is located, but you could watch the voltage on the wire that comes from the relay coil at the connector at your steering wheel and see if it goes away as you remove relays. With a good fuse, of course.

Curious, but what is the voltage sitting at the horn switch connector?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jul 3, 2016, 10:41 AM)


s0up
Novice

Jul 3, 2016, 10:52 AM

Post #10 of 12 (4992 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In


In Reply To
Relays usually don't short internally. Unplugging the relay and performing your short test would tell you if the problem is the relay or the wiring. I suspect wiring myself. Not sure where the relay is located, but you could watch the voltage on the wire that comes from the relay coil at the connector at your steering wheel and see if it goes away as you remove relays. With a good fuse, of course.

Curious, but what is the voltage sitting at the horn switch connector?


Ok, thanks for pointing that out. So I should pull every relay in the car one at a time and test both the button and the horn itself to see if I get a voltage change? If there was a short in the wire, would pulling every relay out of the car (all at once) have any effect?

Right now there is +12v on the orange (input, turning into red on the other side of the connector) at the horn connector in the steering enclosure (first picture). But there is no voltage on the button itself, so that red wire is clearly dead unless there's something I'm not understanding. However, I ran a test wire from the button to the connector and still wasn't able to trigger the horn. So I suspect on top of the dead wire problem running through the steering wheel/column, that there is a second problem.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Jul 3, 2016, 10:59 AM

Post #11 of 12 (4988 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In

The relay is probably going to be located in the driver's side dash area, so you shouldn't have to go pulling every relay in the entire vehicle.

The wire to the horn that comes from the relay shouldn't have any power on it when the relay isn't being turned on. When the horn switch in the steering wheel isn't closed, there should be 12 volts sitting at the wire that comes from the relay coil. Make sure that you make your voltage measurements with your meter referenced to battery ground when testing at the horn switch connector.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


s0up
Novice

Jul 3, 2016, 11:44 AM

Post #12 of 12 (4980 views)
Re: Suzuki Swift 2006 horn problem Sign In


In Reply To
The relay is probably going to be located in the driver's side dash area, so you shouldn't have to go pulling every relay in the entire vehicle.

The wire to the horn that comes from the relay shouldn't have any power on it when the relay isn't being turned on. When the horn switch in the steering wheel isn't closed, there should be 12 volts sitting at the wire that comes from the relay coil. Make sure that you make your voltage measurements with your meter referenced to battery ground when testing at the horn switch connector.


Ok, I will try pulling some relays and see what I get. I'll post back with results. Thanks for the advice.






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