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Starting electrical problem 71 ford


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mm2101
Novice

Mar 10, 2017, 8:03 AM

Post #1 of 17 (306 views)
Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

I bought this car on ebay and was told it ran fine. It is a 1971 ford ranchero 302 v8 motor auto trans suppose to be 68000 miles but looks like 168000. Upon delivery it was not running would not start. I started it with a jump and it stalled out and I could not restart it. The cables and battery looked bad so I changed them and it would not start nothing not even a click. I had someone try to start it and I jumped the solenoid and it started. So I bought a new solenoid I changed it put all the wires in the same place and as I tightened the battery cable up it started the car the key was not even in it. I took the cable off and it shut down. Tried it again and the same thing it starts up and I think the starter is still running not sure but I think it was so I took off the cable and shut it down. Nothing in the car works no lights wipers or radio. I am lost on this anyone have any advice.
mm




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(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Mar 10, 2017, 12:36 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Mar 10, 2017, 12:41 PM

Post #2 of 17 (288 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

Sounds like that new solenoid is either wired wrong or defective.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 10, 2017, 12:53 PM

Post #3 of 17 (285 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

The OE solenoid on this should have TWO smaller posts one marked "S" and the other marked "R" but replacement may not mark them that way. Reason is "S" is the trigger wire to send power on to starter. Other's job of a few is to send power to coil thru a "r" resistor which should by pass the resistor just while cranking then go thru it via another route.


If new solenoid only has one small threaded post it would run the starter all the time while hooked up with all wires. Even if changed to electronic you could still use the OE solenoid just not the other way around,


T



mm2101
Novice

Mar 11, 2017, 8:50 AM

Post #4 of 17 (264 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

Well I got a new solenoid today and put it in and the car started right up. I let it run a little and put it in drive and it stalled out. I try to start it and nothing no click no sound its just like before. I am lost on this any ideas.
mm


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 11, 2017, 9:02 AM

Post #5 of 17 (260 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

! It worked now nothing again! That's not common for two defective. I'd just see with a test light where power drops out or is present or not. Trigger wire should light a test light same as battery post, u-bolt on to solenoid. While trying to start if trigger wire does light up one spot may drop out totally? Find that one,


T



mm2101
Novice

Mar 11, 2017, 11:12 AM

Post #6 of 17 (247 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

I took a test light and turned the key on and three terminals have power no power to the starter cable. I took a volt meter and the power going in is 12 vdc the first small post is 12 vdc and the second is 6 vdc. and when trying to start this is the same and no powere to the starter cable post. Is this the problem.
mm


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 11, 2017, 11:53 AM

Post #7 of 17 (243 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

Arggh - OK that solenoid is triggered and not enough power to make it click against force of a spring to make it default to off to the starter.


Now check that ground is just as strong as your readings show lower than norms which to me means the power can't make the loop back thru ground and is getting used up.


If you understand this you can add cable power using real good jumper cables for even overlaying ground to ground. Remember U-Bolts of many types now do not get as good a grip on the post as the lead ones did. Only the round post transferring power to u-bolt then on to cable matters. If new ends on cables most really stink. Lead and real copper is both hard to find and not what you'll get first in stock if at all.


All still needs a known good and fully charged battery not just how new it might be,


T



mm2101
Novice

Mar 11, 2017, 1:02 PM

Post #8 of 17 (233 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

so I put the meter on the first wire from the S post and turned on the ignition and there is 12 volt I put that on the s post and the car does not start. I took a cable and jumped the relay from the battery side to the starter side and the car started right up so the battery is fine and the car starts. Since the car first started the right way when I put in the relay and then after that would not work however does start when the relay is out of the loop could this relay also be bad or is the car somehow destroying them. I am lost with this. Also when the car is running nothing works no lights, fan, radio etc.mm


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 11, 2017, 2:34 PM

Post #9 of 17 (219 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

if you have 12v on the "S" post when ignition sends it there and it doesn't click to send on power to the starter suggests solenoid is NG or I/we are missing something. If you tested that 12V from ignition trigger then it dropped way down it wouldn't have the power to pull in a plunger against a spring that forces it off if all is right. It's a strong spring to be OFF to the starter.


Bypassing directly to the larger gauge wire that goes directly to starter would crank a good starter with a good connection and cable.


I'm imagining a bunch of those squeeze end eyelets that aren't always so great may be all over this and you lose current power (amps) at them. The original trigger wires just pushed on no nut to hold them at all but were tight. Those if played with too much lost enough contact so people/techs would put an eyelet end there instead.


This is a raw solenoid just carries a lot of amps for an engine. A relay really just very heavy duty. Can't say as I've ever had a new one fail and most last forever without some reason probably and possibly lack of use for very long time or water got in. Not new though.


Hey - some cheapo aftermarket could have a lot of defective ones. It would work on a work bench with a battery and jumper clips for a test.


Many other assorted things cars or not use this type and grade solenoid purposely to NOT have it on top of the starter for room or complicating the starter itself.


This starter throws the small gear out to engage flywheel just from the spinning motor force and retracts via its starter drive unseen just looking. It works clearly.


Do remember the starter is the largest draw on a batter and the one item that takes full force a battery can deliver thru that. If low it would flutter. If not enough power but some maybe just one snap + click. Nothing at all it can't even do that.


Try this: Tap on it while 12v is showing at the "S" terminal. If it starts up the thing is a junk brand. You could volt check, amp check till hell freezes over and never get good readings. If good they work without hassle,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Mar 11, 2017, 3:28 PM

Post #10 of 17 (213 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

These cars were notorious for corrosion on the cable eyelets that's not visible to the eye. Remove all the cables again, including at the starter and wire brush both sides of the eyelet and the connector post and see what happens.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



mm2101
Novice

Mar 12, 2017, 5:30 AM

Post #11 of 17 (193 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

So this morning I go out and I try it and the car starts however the starter is running continuious and wont shut off and I cant shut the engine off. I take off the battery cable and the car goes off and when I try to put it back the starter turns I take all the wires off except the starter cable and touch the battery cable to its post and the starter turns. At this point I take of the relay and I get the original , the one I thought was defective and the new blue one and I bench test them with a battery and as you said a screw driver from the battery post to the small post next to it. Well what do you know all three are clicking and are good. So I put the original back in hook it up I clean all wires and make sure ground is good and nothing. At this point I am thinking it is the ignition switch that is bad. What do you think.mm


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 12, 2017, 5:57 AM

Post #12 of 17 (186 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

Cables clean and good mean ALL of them both pos and neg all ends of each which is six on this. You've seen 12v I thought you said at the trigger wire and no response on to starter so at that moment ignition switch worked, how strong is still in question. May need to get seriously into how much power goes thru via volts and ohm checking and watching with a DVOM when it happens.


Other thing is when a poor connection tries it get real hot right there if any is connecting so a subsequent try might work or work for days to drive anyone nuts as it might test properly so really need to see if it hacked up wiring or what you have that's visually suspect.


? May matter but think Ranchero was the body of a Torino in 1971 or was it another? Doesn't matter for this totally but wonder if you ignition is on dash or on the steering wheel which matters where the switch is not the key cylinder the ignition switch,


T



mm2101
Novice

Mar 12, 2017, 6:04 AM

Post #13 of 17 (183 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

It is the torino and the key is on the steering colum.
mm


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 12, 2017, 6:39 AM

Post #14 of 17 (181 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

Thought so. Ignition switch (the electrical switch) then has to be down the column as it nears the dash. Dash switches were the switch electrical was plugged into the back right there. That's not where I think this problem is just need to know for future for testing.


I still think some wires have poor ends either OE or cheap crimp tip ends giving this fits,


T



mm2101
Novice

Mar 12, 2017, 7:12 AM

Post #15 of 17 (175 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

Well I went under the dash and turned the key to on with the fan switch also on. I started to push the two wire harness couplings I saw there and the fan came on I reached up and turned the key and the car started. The wipers, gauges and lights and fan all work. Turn it off and try to start again and its dead again. I do the same thing push the connections together and it comes to life again. I got one plug apart and sprayed electric cleaner in it and put it back but did not help. So I think the problem is here but it looks like it will be very hard to get to this. I could not even get the other plug apart.
mm


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Mar 12, 2017, 7:22 AM

Post #16 of 17 (173 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

Ford had a lot of problems with those high current connectors overheating and burning the connectors which caused severe resistance and poor contact in the plug. In many cases these plugs need to be changed out. If you see any burn marks in the plastic or discolored pins, that is the case.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



mm2101
Novice

Mar 12, 2017, 7:38 AM

Post #17 of 17 (167 views)
Re: Starting electrical problem 71 ford Sign In

I need to take this apart but not sure if I can I may have to send it out.
thanks
mm






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