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Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip


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eqrash
User

Jan 6, 2019, 12:22 AM

Post #1 of 16 (603 views)
Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

The trip B keeps resetting without me pressing any buttons and the tachometer is only fully lit through about 5k rpms so I think I have an electrical issue. I don't have any problems starting the car and the alternator appears to be putting out about 14.1 volts while the engine is started so I'm not entirely sure of what to look for. The main issue is that my dash is only partially lit, the knobs for the rear window defroster and temperature knob is also dimmer than other accessory lights....

I originally assumed someone somehow got into my car to reset the trip, which would be weird but I only saw it changing, however with other existing issues with the dash cluster I'm not entirely sure that's the case. The vehicle also has a new set of keys which work with everything except the boot, so it may have been a preexisting issue from before I bought it.... What else could cause this, the only thing I can think of is a rectifier not charging the battery so long as the the battery gets charged enough it should provide enough current to all circuits....?

I'm driving a 2006 Hyundai Elantra


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jan 6, 2019, 4:06 AM

Post #2 of 16 (589 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

Ugg? Yes that battery totally matters it starts the car so not the up front issue IMO right now.
Basics and this will be a tough find: Dim or no lighting and resets of things you didn't assertively do? A reason is the dash cluster is empowered and grounded with two circuits one of which can cut out totally or partially not enough to recall the trip odometer.


Lost: What would be needed is the full diagrams of how all that is empowered and grounded some is full time battery enabled some is not no telling why these items are split up in one unit that probably is unfixable if inside it?
Not much help to you - sorry. Just maybe try the wiggle test on highly suspect plugs/wires that are to this unit see if it snaps out of it or changes it in any way while also watching it.


You could try a dealer for help my bet is you'll get some hourly rate to chase this but could be worth asking how they would approach it. Why - they have info if this is common available and what the fix is not easily available. Good luck,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jan 6, 2019, 5:55 AM

Post #3 of 16 (584 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

There is only one lighting feed going into the dash cluster so if you have issues with only part of the cluster lighting up, all you can blame is the cluster.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jan 6, 2019, 6:02 AM

Post #4 of 16 (580 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

I'm asking HT. Also have dug into some of this stuff just find a break in pos or neg and if or where it cuts out destroys many of these units just to take apart, sealed routing of "stuff" inside the unit - this cast "dash cluster."


Worse is how to you prove it's that close 100% so if all new is the fix it really works. What a no-win scene IMO hate problems like that one!


Tom



eqrash
User

Feb 5, 2019, 9:07 PM

Post #5 of 16 (487 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

I did finally take apart the dash, I was looking at wiring harnesses and ground leads under the wheel at first but I've honestly found nothing wrong with it.... Not even a corroded ground wire.... The battery while suspect wasn't the problem, I found a gadget I wanted to test on amazon, a little blue tooth battery tester, and it elected that the battery was only providing 300 out of 700 CCA so I did replace the battery after it failed to start a couple of times.... It appears to be getting full voltage and amperage and still does it though, the charging test is running a full 3300 ma as well now.... However I can't find anything visibly wrong with it and following the traces on the pcb is a nightmare.... When I disassembled the cluster I found no corrosion or any parts of the circuit which were malfunctioning enough to create visible signs, I did not get the entire pcb inspected though.

I guess at this point I have two questions, because I don't know where to look and searching the web didn't help much as I was only able to revise and revise my search terms and didn't find any sites that had a suitable database.....

-How or where might I find the right wiring diagrams?

-Do any of you know where I might be able to find instructions on disassembling the cluster further than just taking the cover off of the back? The indicators don't appear to come off easily....

I didn't put a multimeter to it yet, I can't find any indication that any circuits are malfunctioning but I'm hoping that if I can take the face plate off and inspect the other side of the PCB or locate any traces which are on the same bus as the tach I might be able to discern which leads I actually need to test.....

does anyone know what kind of signal or short might interfere with the tach? I was under the impression the tach was a simple switch... I don't remember the type but it is a single pole push button right?


(This post was edited by eqrash on Feb 5, 2019, 9:28 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 6, 2019, 4:12 AM

Post #6 of 16 (470 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

2006 Hyundai Elantra:
Post #3 by Hammer Time said volumes. One feed and part working cluster it's the cluster.
Now I go chatty. CCA is what a charged battery can do at 32F just FYI. Would do far less if perfect predictably as you go lower temps than that till near hopeless. Batteries don't like cold and don't like heat even more nor charging quickly alternator or a charger.


I'm not sure if you can send the cluster out for repair or get another whole unit. You said you didn't see evidence of corrosion on anything is inconclusive still as you know. Internal diagrams for cluster itself may not be so easily available or no practical repair now a dealer's parts listings may confirm that. Is that on the open web? Probably not.
Suggestions now: Price out the whole thing as a unit so you don't just waste tons of time for nothing and what's needed with a new one to match the car also probably only practical again at a dealer.
Now why does erratic stuff happen just FYI again: Low power supplied to items like when CCA found less than 1/2 voltages also drop if vehicle starts alternators scramble to put the lost power back may throw spike of higher voltage just a second or two - the electrical stuff hates that or get harmed or ruined.
If you want to play with some items you don't need put them in a freezer and see if it even works - anything a thermometer, clock or some stupid thing then warm it up too much if you can know the actual temp even 140-160F see if it goes blank or what. Stuff hates all that never mind it's in a car exposed to all of those.


I think you are going to be finding a new cluster is the answer as the most likely guess or spend another month finding out you can't fix what you have is really info you could use I can't provide that because IDK if a place anywhere just does all that - once did for some?


T



eqrash
User

Feb 6, 2019, 8:16 AM

Post #7 of 16 (457 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

Yeah, thats kind of what I was figuring, usually I don't know how to reman things. Typically when I have to fix something I just buy a part. I've been finding that the new clusters, if you can find one, typically don't have the same odometer reading as the old ones though. Isn't it illegal to alter the mileage on a car? Do you know if there is a way to set the odometer to the same reading as a new cluster if I can find one? I don't have a nice unit, just a little obdII blue tooth device that connects to my phone...

And on the lighting feed, I guess I should have worded my inquiry a little better, do you know how I might find which wire is the supply voltage? The connectors don't have any markings on them at all.... I'm really not worth much to this world, I like to learn by testing things and save a little money because I'm typically saving more than I can make per hours I spend on the device.... In a sense its still kind of working so I really have nothing but time if there is even a small chance of fixing the one I don't have to alter the odometer on.... I've seen videos online which replace all of the back lighting bulbs and re-soldered an IC once or twice.... I don't remember the site or creator's name but I was hoping to find a way if such a thing exists....


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 6, 2019, 9:16 AM

Post #8 of 16 (450 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

? Hammer Time may know for sure - I don't. The scanner that will program units with the old DNA if you will are so costly you wouldn't buy one for just one time.
Love to fix things even this stuff with reckless disregard for how long it takes come up short now so much is sealed in that 'perma-Jell-O' stuff and plastic spot welds too much just isn't going back together again and work or for long you are letting in humidity alone some items can't take that or for long.
Speaking for myself and area the good old Radio Shack places if not familiar was (out of biz now) a place you could find about anything or get, color coded and solder in a new one or patch a printed board if you found a break. Been fussing with now an antique radio just a volume problem world search can't find the part and see it!
Odometers: YES it would be illegal to alter the #s recorded in KMs or Miles will come back exact. If you can fake that (absolutely a possible thing) I wouldn't nor know anyone who would and wouldn't want to know them - that's plain wrong to do.
You asked what voltage this stuff is? It could be based on 5.5V volts - I plead IDK. I'd check at the plug if that curious.
See what others say have a tiny issue going on now no problem to ignore just hell bent to fix it or finding that I'm probably not going to already wasted 20 hours messing with it.
It's not the bucks it's get personal with me!


For you? How long can you wait first the info, then possible part(s) then have unit reset? Even if you find it's just not going to happen if determined it could be worth it just to know for you please share it with others.


BTW - Odometers at some point for US vehicles only started over at 100,000 miles no longer they read right on up the next digit. Both because KMs would be 100K at 62K miles confuse everything if you use the thing they sure document it where I am now take pictures of it every year archived forever with the VIN of the vehicle. Also note this or another odometers read more miles/KMs if in reverse! That was once a trick put a drill on a cable unit leave it running the cable backwards for a day or two don't deal with folks or used dealers who would do that it's theft - not into that.
Already said I think with your VIN# you need to ask a dealer if only a price you've found a lot yourself already about it. If a person in person can't come up with info and prices or tell you NOT AVAILABLE the dealer should know - I can't know that with any info I have.
Caulk it up to a "Good College Try" and welcome to a whole era of some stuff car, home, biz just isn't fixable you toss it! Suks if you ask me but is the way it is.
Best I can offer for info and already said you'd probably end up with the whole assembly and out some real bucks too,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Feb 6, 2019, 9:48 AM

Post #9 of 16 (438 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

OK, it's not illegal to alter an odometer. It IS illegal however to sell the vehicle without disclosing it. The vehicle has to be presented and titled as "unknown mileage" from that point on.

There are companies that sell reman cluster units and they will program the correct mileage for you before shipping it. I've done a lot of GMs.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



eqrash
User

Feb 6, 2019, 10:08 AM

Post #10 of 16 (425 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

Im sorry tom im having a little trouble reading your post, im not trying to get personal, quite frankly i refuse to get personal with anyone ever....

What perma jello are you talking about? I was just going to use clear caulk to seal it?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 6, 2019, 10:35 AM

Post #11 of 16 (419 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

NO - Not about YOU at all! It's me about stubborn refusal to accept something really isn't fixable. I hate that. If it was made ever fix it. The gel I called a brand name of food is a plastic like sealing gel for electrical things (assorted places) when an item has been made it's sealed in this non solid gel to protect it also prevents getting at one silly item inside that broke, failed in some way. Sorry for that confusion not a problem in the world with you we all volunteer FREE to you willingly.
Carry on, Tom



eqrash
User

Feb 8, 2019, 1:29 PM

Post #12 of 16 (373 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

Mmhmm… If I find a solution I'll share... It highly depends on how accessible components are and whether I can find replacement parts though, dash clusters appear to be similar to computers or ICs though, most of it seems to be assembled from commercial ICs and manufacture's circuit design though... The chip that's on this particular board would likely require a hot air station or micro pencil if one wanted to swap out the chip for the Odometer count though, and I don't have either so it'll probably be a back burner chore.... There are plenty of people out there doing component level repairs on MacBooks and phones like Luis Rossman (you can search YouTube for his channel if you're interested in free information and tech field trade knowledge as the components and processes are very similar). I picked up an identical cluster at a junk yard so I'm considering a similar swap or to further inspect the existing cluster to see if I can get at the tach's push button in hopes it's simply corrosion or a short, I was unable to remove the gauges because I didn't want to break them in attempt to preserve the cluster however I did a little more poking around and found that there are primarily (possibly more, be careful if you ever have to disassemble your own) two different types of locking mechanisms to place the gauge on the stepper motors; one requires you turn the gauge backwards past it's resting place and the other is simply held in by friction, either can be removed by turning the gauge past the 0 mark a little and gently prying up with a prybar or bottle opener if you don't have too many tools....

I understand your frustration, I hate not being able to fix things as well, however most things are simply a matter of abstraction in experience. Sometimes you have to reprogram, sometimes a level of abstraction allows you to replace a large component like the cluster instead of a deeper level of abstraction that'll require soldering components or ICs inside a device you normally treat as a single part like the cluster I'm looking at.

I was just hoping ya'll might have a little guidance as it might have made the process easier, however I do my best to never fail in sharing information if it is accessible to me, I've never refused to answer a question when someone actually asks for help. There's a difference between a consumer's right to repair and manufacturing patent rights.... Personally I believe that if you own something you have the right to repair it.

There are also a couple of options (which may be used correctly or ideally not used by dishonest mechanics to alter the mileage) that require replication of voltage or current limiting resistors to reprogram clusters.... A nice one is available first on google if you search for "reprogram odometer), please don't misuse it though, an odometer tachometer can be a very useful tool in planning general maintenance. I don't know if I'm allowed to share actual URLs but I hope it helps if anyone ever comes across this thread if they have to fix their own.

Work smarter not harder Ya'll....


eqrash
User

Feb 8, 2019, 1:30 PM

Post #13 of 16 (373 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

Thank you for you intentions of offering free advice BTW. Us newer generations can't learn without old timers that have seen our problems before.


(This post was edited by eqrash on Feb 8, 2019, 1:34 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 8, 2019, 3:11 PM

Post #14 of 16 (352 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

You can call it "Old Pharts" I find it amusing sometimes. Knew and picked the brains of several handy people pre dating electricity at all! Onward the smarts to make a wheel out of wood that lasts!
Spokes? What are they? Yes, you can true a wheel if you know how to tighten and loosen the common "Tangential Spoked Wheel" be it a vehicle, cart, bicycle and so on.
OMG - who will recall all that crap? Yes - there were a couple GM cars as late as the 1970s had real spokes not many though and on purpose to be real not a hub cap that looked like real ones.
If you want to see frustration and a skill try to write with a real fountain pen or even a pen made from a feather and not "blot" a mess all over the place.
If younger yourself (don't say here exactly anything) you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that knows what a desk blotter was really for still sold new now IDK what they get used for?? Don't get me going I'll have you Googling your brains out what the "eff" I'm talking about!
Can't resist but have a real pre-civil war Ox-Bow or Yoke bent wood and blacksmith made custom metal could still be used - scary! "Plastic?" - what's that? It was called Bakelite the brand name once. Still own one vehicle the steering wheel is made of that and knobs and the thing WORKS!


Tom






Tom



eqrash
User

Feb 8, 2019, 5:48 PM

Post #15 of 16 (338 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

I don’t know ya old phart…. I’ve been verbally and psychologically abused so much I don’t even like the jovial stuff anymore… Quite frankly I find it hard to get out of bed most mornings because the world around me sucks….

You should create a master class or a class on udemy if you like telling stories though. I’m having a hard time finding online classes or information for either Automotive history or ASE certification..... You could share it with the world? None of it is organized, usually I find my self hopping from site to site to dig up the information I’m looking for. You could enlighten and inspire some young cadets or save some backyard mechanics some money, whilst making a little money…. Old farts are legally entitled to hobbies still aren’t they? You could show off your rims…

I have seen the old model T though (sorry I’m generalizing because I don’t remember the make year and model), the spark advance on the steering wheel was pretty cool, watching the evolution of technology from a perspective once removed really kind of illustrates the R&D process manufacturers go through to make things available or possible for demanding and insensitively inconsiderate markets…. I wish more would look for ways to improve things because they like solving problems instead of a preference for being served… The world would be a better place if everyone was more like Elon…


(This post was edited by eqrash on Feb 8, 2019, 5:52 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 9, 2019, 2:57 AM

Post #16 of 16 (320 views)
Re: Issues with partially lit dash and self resetting trip Sign In

All in good fun. Can carry on if you wish probably best off site click on my name gets you option for a private message as this drifts from the subject matter of the up front problem. :-) Tom







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