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Dead Battery after sitting for a few days


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Timaaay
New User

Apr 28, 2017, 3:52 PM

Post #1 of 11 (2175 views)
  post locked   Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

OK, I've been an electrician for over 30 years, so I know the basics. I have a 2006 Buick Lacrosse CXL with 80,000 miles. The issue is that if the car is left for more than 3 days, the battery i dead. I left it for 5 days and I didn't even get a click. So, I charged the battery ank kept my Fluke 77 meter to monitor the charging voltage for about a week. All good there.
So I figured something must be drawing current when the car is off. So, I removed the negative terminal, put my meter to read current. After the initial 2 amps power up, for about 20 seconds) the meter showed a constant 25 ma. Seemed normal to me. Thats .25 Amps. I left it in-line all day and the meter will show the high and low. All was about 25 ma. give a tiny bit either way.
So I opened the fuse box, pulled all wires, banged on fuses, etc, jarred doors, trunk, etc. Did the same with the fuse box under the hood. So I cleaned all terminals and drove the car for a month with no issues, but used it every day or every other day. No slow cranking, nothing. Then my car sat for 6 days while i was away. Battery was stone dead. I charge it, went to my local mechanic who put a load test and said battery was fine.
I decided to replace the battery anyway since it was 3 years old. I performed the exact same test as above and all seemed fine. Anyway, the car sat for 5 or 6 days and the battery was stone dead, I didnt even get a click. I went nuts this time with an amp meter in line. Pulled, tugged on every wire, harness, and switch I could find. Still about 25 ma.
I checked my other car, a 2015 Buick and get about 25ma on that one too, but that sits for weeks sometimes and starts right up.
Im out of ideas, I'm hoping someone else may have an answer.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 28, 2017, 9:53 PM

Post #2 of 11 (2152 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

?Amps or (ma) draw? Here's a way to test for "parasitic drains" by Hammer Time here on a locked thread up above..........
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/...THE_BATTERY_P186624/
Some notes on top of that:


OK - Couple notes that really have to defeat interior lights, hood light or unplug it to test. Any lighting perhaps hidden that can sense angle of hood, hatch or trunk lid type thing know car should be level. Whacked but if parked at a high angle or item senses an angle to turn a light on it might be when parked vs testing thing in another spot while level.


Lead Acid Batteries: Some take abuse of going low a couple time or more some it really raises hell fast. They are NOT meant to run very low plus when they are charging system is working very hard upon start up and may - you are stressing it AND the full power of a charge can be harsh if too fast.
Other thing that stinks is it really is possible to get new batteries that are flawed/defective from new and don't have the CCA (that's amps at 32F) they say to deliver for start ups.
Does this vehicle have any aftermarket equipment like remote starter, anti-theft, sound equipment or a locator device that may draw periodically?
Another if parked on an angle. Does this car have automatic load leveling that can operate with everything off? Some still did by another GM division just a little older model didn't leak but did pump up for a few seconds shortly after parked and was on an angle - no problem that time no leaks in air bag load leveling,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 29, 2017, 4:16 AM

Post #3 of 11 (2147 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  


Quote
the meter showed a constant 25 ma. Seemed normal to me. Thats .25 Amps.


You're right about one thing. 25ma would be acceptable but .25amp is 250ma and that is not acceptable. You are also not allowing the timers to expire before reading.


There is a procedure for finding a battery draw like that.

You will need a digital ammeter and a jumper wire with clips on the ends to do this.
First rig any door switches so you can have a door open without triggering the interior lights and unplug the hood light. Remove one battery cable and attach the meter in series between the battery cable and battery post. Take the jumper wire and also attach it the same way. Leave the jumper wire on for at least 30 to 40 minutes to expire all the automatic timers. Now remove the jumper wire and read the meter. Anything over 50ma is too much draw. The way you locate this is to start removing fuses one at a time until the meter drops to normal level. This will be the circuit with something staying on. Determine what components are part of that circuit and check them individually until the problem is isolated.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Apr 29, 2017, 4:17 AM)


Timaaay
New User

Apr 29, 2017, 10:55 AM

Post #4 of 11 (2131 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

Thanks. My typo, I meant to say .025 amps or 25 ma. I did remove the hood lamp, and left the meter in series with the negative terminal removed, and the meter in series between the battery post and the wire that went to the negative. My meter records highest and lowest readings. I left it where I always park it, on a very level driveway and left the meter in-line for over 8 hours. The highest reading in that period was .0259A and lowest was .0248A. It came from the dealer with remote-start option ( a blessing in the Pocono Mountains in winter) But no added items like alarm, stereo, CB, etc. I even unplug my GPS when not in use. I suppose the hood lamp may be on with the hood closed, so I left the bulb out, just to be sure. I was going to start pulling the fuses if the reading was too high, but it seemed normal. I'm wondering if a relay may be getting stuck. When I disconnect power to put the meter in-line, it drops out the relay because no power to keep it on.
I'm kind of at a loss here, Perhaps, as you mention, leaving a jumper on BEFORE I pull the battery terminal to connect the meter may be the answer, as power is never lost. I'll give that a try and see what happens. Thanks for the reply guys.
I'll check back in and let you know how its going. I appreciate you guys taking time to try to help me out!!


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 29, 2017, 10:59 AM

Post #5 of 11 (2124 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

The bottom line here is that 25ma will not kill your battery overnight so there has to be something wrong with your testing or something coming on during the night.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 29, 2017, 11:17 AM

Post #6 of 11 (2122 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

? Observations should mean it's ok but isn't. Which relay does this click thing? I do suspect that.


The remote start factory (dealer may still be aftermarket) are total problem spots. How close are you to this car with the remote and could it accidentally be left running and self shut down as in within distance?


Is there a one relay or fuse that can disable that totally to remove for a test if so do so.


Back - the diagnosis with meter is pulling fuses without any chance of a door open drawing current and one by one isolate which one would make a drain go away but it isn't giving you that in front of you to do that or yet.


Hate to see you just let it keep happening ending up with a dead battery as said that will kill a new one.


I guess for now if it's going to play hide and seek disable the remote start by fuse, relay or both that doesn't impair use of the vehicle and just wait a day and check battery voltage. If left charged should just read 12.6 if perfect maybe 12.5Volts that is. If you find it lower it's playing with you - either an item drawing current intermittently or can be battery itself new or not even same as what might have been a good older one already is self draining even without being connected.


Don't discard that as a possibility - "lead-acid" batteries HATE being low on charge,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 29, 2017, 3:36 PM

Post #7 of 11 (2115 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

He hasn't even confirmed that there IS a parasitic drain so there is no point looking for one until you can determine it even has one.

You might try disconnecting the battery overnight to see if that resolves it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Apr 29, 2017, 3:37 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 29, 2017, 10:34 PM

Post #8 of 11 (2106 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

Ditto - testing isn't showing it up so not much to find WHILE something is wrong.


OP - IMO it's still an open book exam - this could be a few things and I'm not sure you'll find it instantly. Like Hammer's idea to leave battery unhooked. I also wonder it just left unhooked it stays stable - without the car involved at all?


Hey - I deal with many "Low Use" vehicle and things - electric start generators. Now long ago put floating chargers on all AND an LED voltmeter visible without touching vehicle or thing to know it's where it should be and if not go nuts to find out why not.


Failures include the dang chargers, batteries - both gel types and regular. They both can fail, meter info failures just recently the dang 9v battery in one failed!


OMG - the hide and seek problems cause hair loss. Try to rule things out one by one as your testing isn't showing anything for certain IMO yet,


T



Timaaay
New User

May 12, 2017, 2:46 PM

Post #9 of 11 (2067 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

OK, I disconnected the battery and used my other car for a few days. I put the battery back on and it started like a dream. So I put the meter back in-line and all seemed normal, just under 25 ma. Then I saw it jump up to just over 300 ma. I disabled the interior lights and started pulling fuses one at a time. I had eliminated all the fuses inside the car. So, I opened the fuse panel under the hood and before I could touch anything, it fell back to normal. I yanked, pushed, pulled, every fuse , wire and connection or harness I could find. I left the meter in line for a few days and every time I checked it, it was fine UNTIL today. I got home from work around 3:30 and checked the meter and was over 300 ma! I started pulling fuses from the fuse box under the dash one at a time. When I pulled the second to last (isn't that always the way?) It dropped, putting it back in, raised it again, Eureka! at least I found what fuse it was.... finally!! It has been an intermittent problem for months. Anyway, the fuse said "Auxiliary devices". Thats a bit vague, but noticed that the lighter plugs were dead. I had removed my phone charger and GPS to rule them out. Now, comes the part where I feel stupid... A few months ago, my son had a spare GPS (a Garmin) which he was playing with in the back seat. He left it plugged into the lighter plug and stuck it under my seat. I didn't even think it was there. Anyway, it was powered off. Once I pulled that out, my current draw went back to normal.
I was curious and brought it in my house and hooked it up to a power supply and measured a very minimal amount of current while off, but every so often, it would draw over 200 ma. Tapping on it, would go back to a minuscule draw, tapping on it a few more times, would raise the current and it stayed there until I tapped on it again.
I feel like a dope for not checking the rear lighter plug, but, today, I'm so happy I finally found the problem.
I sincerely appreciate all the help from everyone here, and for taking the time to help. It's nice to know there are still some really good folks out there!


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 12, 2017, 3:00 PM

Post #10 of 11 (2058 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

Well, at least you learned how to find a draw. The procedure worked. I'm glad you had the patience to do what you did.

I'll close this one now as solved.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 12, 2017, 3:07 PM

Post #11 of 11 (2053 views)
  post locked   Re: Dead Battery after sitting for a few days  

OK - I can believe you found the total problem with leaving a device plugged in to a power port/cig lighter. No telling those things when THEY device thinks it needs charging or if OFF means OFF for real?


In short - unplug things from power ports - there's not any standard of OFF being really OFF as far as the things charging themselves. Different brand but two of my own do go low or dead (the GPS things) all by themselves when off now older my own would draw too much - two do the same so credible reason.


Now if not done or re-done see if the vehicle's battery has sustained harm from going low to dead may have lost real cold cranking amp ability even though it can still start this vehicle when charged up for some peace of mind to know,


T







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