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Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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vetski179
New User
Sep 3, 2015, 10:04 PM
Post #1 of 8
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Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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I have a 1974 Chev Nova with a 509/Turbo 400. 90k original mileage. Car is always garaged. The electrical was working fine. All signals/lights worked properly inside and out. Strangely, after working fine, one day, when applying the brakes, the rear brake lights go on AND the front turn signals go on. The BRIGHT signal, like the turn signal is on, but glow solid, not on/off like if the siganls were activated. Essentially, the front amber turn signals were activated like the rear brake lights. On solid and bright. Once this happened, I noticed, when looking at the signal indicators in the dash, the arrows are faintly illuminated. And the turn signals, emergency flashers do not work. Didn't do anything to the car when this happened. Any ideas?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 4, 2015, 1:10 AM
Post #2 of 8
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Re: Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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Is body an OE Nova? Off top of my head rear brake, turn + running/parking light bulbs are 1157 = two contact, two filament bulbs and fronts are also same or if clear lens 1157A for "amber" same idea. The contacts if they can touch by corrosion inside, from behind socket or totally failed socket would light them all.
Common other but you said you haven't touched it is if bulbs are forced in they may not line up contacts or back up bulbs #1156 has just one contact that will connect both socket contacts and light all. Nubs are not the same on those two still common enough bulbs so shouldn't fit but can with some force.
Grease sockets with bulb grease if salvageable or again when there.
Any corroded socket or wiring alterations/repairs along the way are suspect especially if this body had a trailer wired wired in now or once upon a time.
Question: What the heck engine is a 509? A typo?
T
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vetski179
New User
Sep 4, 2015, 12:27 PM
Post #3 of 8
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Re: Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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Thanks for the reply. My engine is a Gen 6 Big Block Chevy crate motor that started life as a ZZ502. 4.470 Bore X 4.00 stroke from the factory. I bored it .030 over, so 4.5" bore X 4.0" stroke = 508.94 Cubes. I rounded up a bit to 509. It's all OE body, and I just got done with a huge redo. All bulbs were the correct type for the socket they go in to, i.e. the turn signals are 1157. All sockets free of corrosion and bulb bases lubed with dielectric grease.
Here is the circumstance that the issue I described happened: I took the Nova to have it aligned. The shop had the car on a rack, and the technician put a bar between the front seat and the brake pedal to keep the brakes applied while he was working on the front end. I came into the area a few minutes after he had begun working (with the bar in place). I noticed the both front bumper signal lights on bright. I went around back and noticed the brake lights on bright too. Once the alignment was done, I drove home. On that drive is when I noticed the in-dash turn signal arrows slightly illuminated, and the turn signals not working. Once home, I tried the flashers and they didn't work either.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 4, 2015, 3:56 PM
Post #4 of 8
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Re: Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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Let it go on the math what engine as the largest " Chevy" Gen6 block was a 454 C.I.D. or 7.4L (Liter) engine. First ones were horrible dogs vs a 427 C.I.D. and none the most HP of either some wild big or small blocks. I do think a 302 C.I.D. was the highest revving factory and most rated HP blueprinted and made by the Chevy Division then unique engines to the fleet. Low production of that exact engine by GM.
^^^^ Pic was there. Said rare side for GM some not HP at all! One marked 465 HP.
Some names of drivetrain assemblies OE were.... TH400 was a HD trans used mostly in big blocks named a Turbo Hydromantic by name as was a TH350 in part to become a 700R. Never mind the drivetrain parts totally about a lighting problem except most would "L" weld front and rear sub frames of a '74 Nova so it didn't break off if altering one for more power of any. If not body wasn't really strong enough alone and none of the Muscle Cars were my thing just aware of that chassis pretty well and owned many even exactly '74 none owned a whole year just to turn over an easy fix vehicle and low bucks for parts to do so.
That isn't the point- the body seems like an original '74 Nova is the point. All of the true GMs would have used those bulbs, other total makes as well and did use like soldered dots on bulbs and spring loaded brass contacts inside sockets - any type could cross and make a brights out of what would be both filaments in this case you notice with braking so issue kind of has to be wiring or issues to the rear much more likely.
You said you notice this during an alignment and bar used on brake pedal for some reason? If it never did this before that look over brake pedal for damage to wires.
OK - I don't know of any so called big blocks used in a Nova ---- many GM body/frame parts shared with other models and many low production things were done by GM and Ford mostly.
So, if not damage from the alignment somehow to wiring or a failed bulb or socket you'll have to find this flaw in sockets still or wires right to them or along the frame which now almost has to have added steel and wires run along it.
For lack of other ideas try taking bulb OUT one at a time beginning with rear 1157 bulbs and see if the problem quits while pushing brake pedal for a start to find area of the trouble,
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Sep 4, 2015, 4:03 PM)
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vetski179
New User
Sep 8, 2015, 4:05 PM
Post #5 of 8
(1459 views)
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Re: Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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Must be some sort of loose wire somewhere, as the problem fixed itself over the weekend! On Saturday, the problem was still there. On Sunday, a friend came over who knew a bit about electrical. I tried to show him, and the problem had magically fixed itself overnight! Everything worked fine! I shall get up under the dash and see if I can see anything. Thanks for the replies.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 8, 2015, 6:54 PM
Post #6 of 8
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Re: Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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Arrrg! It's hard to find and fix what isn't broken like this. Try a wiggle test wires at any suspect spots to bring on the problem or make it go away otherwise you may need to wait for it to stay wrong as testing will show it is fine now,
T
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vetski179
New User
Sep 11, 2015, 9:42 PM
Post #7 of 8
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Re: Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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There's a mechanic where I work who used to run his own auto repair shop. I told him about my issue a while back. When I told him the problem fixed itself, he said "turn signal switch is bad". He said he'd seen it MANY times. So, I'm going to give that a try. I'll let you know if he's right.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 11, 2015, 10:25 PM
Post #8 of 8
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Re: Brake Light/Front Turn Signals on at the same time
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I forget - sorry. Yes the switch is brittle and there are left and right handed return springs that cancel the directionals that break easily even when these weren't so old. You do need a tool to get the locking steering wheel's star wheel out with an unseen little cut wedding ring like clip and you'll see if ok inside or not. Good time to regrease it too anyway.
Same springs were used in many GM models enough so they make them still aftermarket by the maker called "HELP" parts.
Look first. The most common complaints were turn signals wouldn't cancel after a turn but it because of a broken spring it can get metal where it doesn't belong or from something else. Actually easy on this car with the tool to take a look.
Warning/clue: put wheel back on in exact correct position pointing straight ahead. There's a nick in the steering column bolt which should line up with the wheel itself or point straight up with wheel indexed to straight ahead. It will go on in any position and make you go right back there,
T
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