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97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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TGMcCallie
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Jul 2, 2008, 10:19 PM
Post #1 of 13
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97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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GMC Sonoma 1997 6 cylinder 4.3 engine.
Sometimes I can attempt to start my truck and it will not turn over. With the key turned on the dash voltage gague will show very low voltage. Sometimes it will just click. All the time the buzzer that tells you to use seat belts will be sounding faintly.
I have had the battery checked by Auto Zone and they said the battery was good since it was showing 736 cold cranking amps. They suggested that i check cables for corrosion. NO Corrosion is on the cables........ They also suggested that my starter may have a burned spot on it.
I can always jump it off by cables connected to my other vehicle.
If the starter had a burned spot, would it still jump off?
What is your opinion as to my problem.
I have 80,000 miles on the truck.
Thanks,
Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 3, 2008, 3:10 AM
Post #2 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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If jumping it corrects the problem the problem is the battery or the cable connections at the battery.
Interesting (perhaps a typo) that AutoZone or anyone actually put your battery at 32 degrees F. to check COLD cranking amps
T
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TGMcCallie
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Jul 3, 2008, 8:48 AM
Post #3 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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That's what I thought but the Autozone fellow told me that when you jump it off it could bump the starter to where it was not on the burned spot.
I jumped it off yesterday and did not drive it at all. It started immediately after than BUT this morning when I went out to crank it would not start.
The AZ man might not have used the phrase cold cranking amps but he did say it was showing that many amps.
I took the battery cables off and looked at them and there was a very small spot of corrososion on the positive cable. I cleaned it off. That was before I tried to start the truck this morning.
I have a 8 year warrantied battery and it si just past it's 4th year. Complete replacement in 3 years. I just think they did not want to adjust it, but that should not cost AZ anything since the battery company would stand that loss.
My past esperience is that if it was the starter, it would not jump off and that is what you said also.
Thanks,
Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 4, 2008, 8:50 AM
Post #4 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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In essence when you are jumping a vehicle and the jumpers are strong (some stink) then your own battery is not really part of the problem for that moment and a known good one (never mind the testing mistakes) is making it work than simple deduction tells you the problem is the battery or the connections right there - not further down the line or the starter as you said.
A four year old battery no matter what warranty it had is too old to trust now. Just take the prorated price and get a replacement. They absolutley can show intermittent troubles. Most automotive batteries are not "deep cycle" and if they don't stay in the top % of their available original cranking amps will lose the reserve capacity fast.
Never mind all the bull. A battery should be able to start a car 20 times without even the alternator getting a moment to put some juice back. When super cold out I'm sure you've witnessed a battery that only had a few tries before the cable came out. At zero F. the dang battery only has a small percentage of what it would have at 70 for example.
It's a double whack when cold as the engine is harder to turn anyway. Try pull starting your lawn mower as an test!
Even average Summer temps is fairly cold to an engine. Notice a second start five minutes later how much easier they are?
More trivia: Batteries hate heat too. That can cause early failures too. Of all the technological advances of the last 100 years battery technology is behind and currently IMO is a major reason electric mobility won't overtake other sources for power till that's solved.
Happy Independece Day!
T
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TGMcCallie
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Jul 4, 2008, 9:25 PM
Post #5 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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Tom, you were dead on it, just like the battery. I took my truck to the shop that I usually use. He put his SnapOn battery analizer that he told me cost him 2,000.00 (hard to believe it cost that) and ran some tests. The screen came back with a read out "Battery Bad". He told me that his battery analizer checked things that the one at AutoZone did not. He told me to go back to AutoZone and tell them that HE said the battery was bad and checked bad by his SnapOn battery analizer.
I went back to AutoZone and the man had to check it again with his little old battery checker and he said it read out 735 Amps and the battery checked good.
I told him that I had just left Automotove Diagnostics and David checked it with his SnapOn battery analyzer and it read out Battery Bad. He said come on inside and we will see what we can work out. He gave me 32.00 toward another 89.00 battery. I guess you just rent batteries at around 10.00 per year. That would make the 8 year battery close to the 79.00 I paid for it in 2004.
Thanks for all your help.
Tom McCallie
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 5, 2008, 3:14 AM
Post #6 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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Tom M. The equipment to really test out cars is wicked expensive!
You do get a "sixth" sense about how powerful (amps) a battery really is or what's left if you know you own vehicle.
IMO, batteries should be considered an expense and maintenance item. A lousy one will ruin alternators, starters and raise hell with all kinds of ever increasingly higher tech stuff throughout a vehicle. They will show all charged up and "ready to go" by some tests but the real test is in the car.
What really stinks is there are a fair amount of them new on the shelf that aren't up to par and can be older than you know right away unless you look and or ask. Some use codes or plain info indicating the month and year it was made. That date is the real age of a battery - not when first put in service as they are aging from day one,
T
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TGMcCallie
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Jul 7, 2008, 9:04 PM
Post #7 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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Tom, my face is red.
I told you about the situation with the battery and Autozone warrantied it out. They said it checked good. Well, I guess itwas good because the new one they gave me is doing the same thing. It would not start again today.
This might sound strange but could this be the problem. I know it sounds weird but here goes: The following happened the same day that the truck failed to start the first time:
The rear view mirror came off the windshield. I figured it was due to the high heat we were having. I unplugged the electrical plug that went to the mirror that supplies the voltage to the mirror lights and left the wire hanging down from the window a bit. The next day I tried to start the truck to go get some adhesive to reinstall the mirror and that is when the truck first frailed to start.
Well after it would not start today, I said it was strange but maybe it had something to do with the starting problem. I reinstalled the mirror and jumped the truck off and drove it for a few miles.
I am waiting to see if it fails to start in the morning.
Could this also be a bad ignition switch or would it not start when jumping it off if the ignition switch was bad.
I am now back to square one. If it does not start tomorrow I am going back to the shop and let him try his 2000.00 tester again.........The one that read out Bad Battery.
Tom M
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 8, 2008, 12:51 AM
Post #8 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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Good battery or not if a drain was on it, it could take it down and not start. When charged and known charged it shoud test well and start/crank the engine with expected power as you have noticed when jumping it.
Charging system may not be maintaining battery at full charge or drain (mirror thing unknown as to whether that could do that) it still points to battery new or not.
I don't care if the car has a charging system, if a known charged up battery can't start it and a jump makes it start normally the problem is the battery or the connections right at it - same as first said.
GM battery cable ends at the battery are iffy when they get older. Take a hard look at those. When jumping the side post type you are connecting to the battery and still relying on the connection of the bolt. The "U" bolt type jumping is direct to the cable first, in fact with good jumper cables you don't even need a battery in the car. The GM side posts are hard to jump unless bolt thru cable end has strong connection there which is using the battery as the "nut" if you will. If a battery is a shorted mess for example jumping those is a trick vs U bolt type,
T
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TGMcCallie
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Jul 12, 2008, 12:11 PM
Post #9 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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As I stated in earlier post, I reinstalled the rear view mirror and plugged the wire back into the mirror that feeds electricity to the map lights. I jumped off the truck after doing this and have started the truck many times after this and it has not failed to start......
lI don't know how this would have caused the battery to drain with the circuit to the mirror inoperative BUT it appears that this is what happened.
Would anyone know why this was possible?
I will repost, if it fails to start in the future.
Tom M
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 12, 2008, 5:26 PM
Post #10 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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If that Rear view mirror also has map lights/courtesy lights in it there's constant power to it and certainly could be the source of a drain,
T
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TGMcCallie
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Jul 12, 2008, 7:47 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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Tom, as stated the rear view mirror DOES have 2 map/courtesy lights built into it. There is a switch on the mirror that turns them on. The switch was not pushed in as you would have to do in order to turn them on.
Explain to me for my satisfaction, exactly how a power drain could happen if the connection to the rear view mirror lights is not connected to the rear view mirror.
I removed the mirror because it was dangling from the windshield due to the mount coming unglued from the windshield and UNPLUGGED the connection that supplied the current to the mirror. With the connection unplugged there is not a completed circuit so looks like there would be no voltage drain on the battery.
Explain to me.
Thanks
Tom M
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 13, 2008, 1:35 AM
Post #12 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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YOU ARE RIGHT. With it unplugged it shouldn't be drawing current. While it was dangling it probably did stress the wires one of which is hot of course causing a problem. You know when that first fell off it no doubt was a pretty good yank on the thing and it happens all the time to mirrors on glass mounts.
Tell me because I don't know the exact function of those lights. Can the "Map" light go on with door closed and keys out of ignition? Do they also come on when door is open with other interior lights? I think they can and would stay on like if you forgot to manually shut them off. I've put a couple of those mirrors w/o compas (just lights) in cars that never had them and I wired them just to be on with the door open I think - been a while.
I took them out of S-10 Blazers from wrecks and I can't recall which way the OE wiring went - along windshield and down pillar or back to another light in headliner. Junk stuff of course I just cut off as much wire as I could pull.
For a silly little handy feature this is and can be causing quite a headache now! The question is..... why didn't it blow a fuse if wires shorted? Does it work now as intended? Hate to even ask you to touch it now that things are working but I think you need to know if this is still a lurking or intermittent drain and YES that's enough to take out a battery little as it is. With a new battery it probably would be able to sustain the power of being ON for one night but that's enough.
Another question: If you have a key fob to unlock doors - DO INTERIOR LIGHTS COME ON - INCLUDING ANY LIGHTS IN THIS MIRROR? Are the interior lights also on delay when you shut a door? This complicates the diagnosing of this now if so.
Been thru hell with a 96 Suburban with the PDL on remote, delay courtesy lighting (non adjustable delay time) - map lights everywhere (six at least) that will stay on even with interior lighting on override to be off! Found that car dead THREE times now with known good battery and last time BOTH rearmost map lights were manually left on for four days - that explains one of the issues but I still have a problem wondering about two other times?? This too is nasty to a now one year old battery!
The next thing is WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT THIS? It isn't apparently causing a problem now so testing much isn't going to show anything You would think if you just left it unplugged it would just take it out of the picture but that's proven not true and I was about to suggest taking the bulbs out of it but if unplugged can cause drain then that's not it either.
CLASSIC ROCK AND HARD PLACE!
I guess now I have to suggest just "wait and see" approach as I don't think testing will be fruitfull with no problem right now.....
T
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TGMcCallie
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Jul 13, 2008, 4:22 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Re: 97 GMC Sonoma won't start at times.....
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Tom, the truck is working just fine now. I have not had the starting problem since I replugged the wire to the mirror.
I will answer your questions:
Can the Map light go on with door closed and keys out of ignition?
Answer: No, unless you cut it on by advancing the switch on the dash that controlls the brightness of the dash lights. This will turn on all courtesy lights.
Do they come on when door is opened?
Answer: Yes, all courtesy lights including the map lights come on and stay on for 20 seconds then they go off as usual.
Does it work now as intended?
Answer: Yes.
Do Interior lights come on - including any lights in this mirror if you use a key fob to unlock doors?
Answer: My door locks are after market and I no longer use the key fob to unlock/lock the doors as the aftermarket system did not work too good anyway.
Are the interior lights also on delay when you shut a door?
Answer: Yes they are on a delay system and work correctly.
I choose not to pull on any wires etc. as long as it is working properly. I say let a sleeping dog lie.
Thanks for your information
Tom M
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